Marching Show Design Tips for Success

Are we on track for marching season? Yes, it’s still spring, but if we aren’t actively preparing for next fall, we’re probably already behind! Mike Lunney offers some great tips and anecdotes from his 30+ years of experience to help get you locked in and on the right track for a successful summer and fall with your marching ensemble!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You know, one of my favorite podcasts we we've done is talking about um march style and and it made me think that a lot of people just don't understand there's actually a style to a lot of what goes on in a march. And I think when we talked about it, we were talking about it from a concert uh point of view, concert band setting. But you know, when you and I were young, way back before dirt, that was actually what we did on the marching field as well, and we had to do that kind of stylistic stuff. We've kind of evolved though in the world of marching, and you know, I know there's gonna be people that fall down on both sides or straddle the fence over visual versus music versus all the things that I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't know that I was in good enough physical shape to do some of the things I see people doing on marching field now.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

But all that is to say, I it strikes me that you know, beyond the musical component of what's going on, there's probably a lot more that goes into preparing for a marching show that probably needs to start way earlier than August. And I'm being facetious when I say it, but I'm making a point.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, and some of these programs, it'll blow your mind. Some of them work on their show design a full year before that fall. So they're one show ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Think about that. They're already thinking that far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

They're thinking 2027 right now. They're designing their 2027 show because 26 is already in the box. You know, it's ready to roll for summer band. Um, so some are that far ahead. I'm not saying I never did that. I had an in-house composer on Luke McMillan.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

So, you know, here's by the same token, your in-house composer Luke McMillan, who now does this for a living, yeah, yeah, is probably already a year or two ahead designing shows for people to consider a year ahead of next year.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Well, yeah, I think he was I think he was two years ahead on my stuff. And he'd say, What do you want to do for next year? And I'd always go, I don't know, whatever you want to write. Next year. Yeah. So just just whatever you want to write, Luke. Because I found that uh, like all creative souls, if you give them less boundaries, they're more creative. If you give them lots of boundaries, vagary rules that they get tied in, it's like, well, Mike wanted this and he wanted that. It's like, man, it's uh just do what you do, man. You write incredible music and still to this day writes incredible music and will for decades. Um, but it was always great. But this one is gonna be a podcast that Stephen Cox, if you're out there listening, please go ahead and turn it off at this moment because this this is this is gonna make you cringe like no one else. Because my friend Stephen Cox We love you, Steven. Well, we love Stephen, and he he's a very uh much, he's not into the competitive side of bands, and I respect that greatly. But this is I I'm going right to the the artery of uh what are things we can do in our show design that can garner us more points when we're at area marching, not region marching, because that's a different animal than area marching and state marching. So here we go, my friend. Let's let's here we go, buckle up. Okay. So show design notes. These are things that are still, even at this time when you're listening to this podcast, some things can still be changed and lots of things can still be changed. But I want you to understand some things about, in my opinion, how things are rewarded points and things are not given points. Okay. Flute soloists and choirs are highly rewarded in points.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

That's fact.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

That's fact. I mean, I say fact, it's it's fact as far as my opinion, as whatever that means. You know what I mean? But I've seen it in action. Uh yeah, I've seen it in action. You know, you can have a trumpet trio playing something, and it will not be given the same amount of points as a flute soloist playing a beautiful solo on an alto flute or or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Do you have any reasoning for that?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

I think it just inherently it's more musical. Because I always laughingly tell people, said, you know, the Woodwinds have it so easy. They have these things called musical instruments. And they're they're designed to be musical. And so we as brass players have plumbing with a bell and a mouthpiece, and they're telling us to be just as musical with our piece of PVC plumbing. That's great. And it's there's a lot of truth to that, isn't there, Derek?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

That uh we're primitive bugly looking thing, and they say Which is verifiable by taking a garden hose, sticking a mouthpiece in the end of it, and you can make musical.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

He calls it his Texas Tech Trumpet, but it's uh well, like a pea bone, but it's a trumpet, it's right in black. I can put my uh Dennis Wick mouthpiece in that thing, and I can make it sound pretty dang good. And it's plastic, it doesn't sound as good as my box strad. It doesn't, but it's pretty passable. I can play it just as functional, it's very functional. And if I destroy it, it's only$110 on Amazon, you know, instead of$5,000 from whatever, you know. But I still love my box straddle. Every music retailer listening just went, oh yeah, but you know, it's uh yeah, stop. Yeah, sorry about that. Sorry about that, uh, Mr. Mrs. Tarpley, whatever. But uh, but yeah, it's uh it's very passable. But I think that's where it it lies in. Is it and plus um I think woodwinds are still the bright shiny penny in marching band because for so many years we just they were like hidden, you know, they they were just like uh they just marched and we never heard them except for an obligatory digga digga digga digga. They'd do some little woodwind flourish and then the brass would come back in and just waylay the stands with, you know, and so let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Do you think there's an is there an element of wow, I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, we expect trumpets to come out and blow our faces off. Yeah. But I wasn't expecting that pretty little if you mic it right and do all the things right. There's an episode for that.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Stage it correctly, all that kind of stuff. So flute soloists and choirs, uh, I think are the most highly rewarded. And then we get into clarinets. Saxophones are almost too much like brass. And unless you have just an incredible soloist on saxophone, which is awesome. Uh uh one that I heard one this last year that was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

That Soprano Sax player at Canyon. Uh trying to remember it was an L. Yeah. I was just like, wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

And I recruited that young man. He's in the Skyriders this year.

unknown 6:25

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, so we were excited. We got five five kids from Canyon. Uh, one woodwind, three brass, and one guard kid. So we got five of those Canyon kids. So Eric Rath, thank you for your uh support of the Sky Riders. One of them's his daughter, the guard kid's his daughter. And so McKinley's gonna do a great job for us. But yeah, that's souls. When I heard him at state marching at area marching, I was doing tabulations as being on the board of directors for the sky riders. I go, you know, it's like an NIL kind of thing. I'm getting that boy. So I immediately started making contact. I was like, Nick Saban, you know, can I meet your parents? You know, we will take care of you. So that yeah, that kid, yeah. So that was highly rewarded because they started the show with Right of Spring with this beautiful Soprano Sack solo by this kid. Um, so and guard is nothing but added reward. They are added reward. There's very little a guard can do that will take away points in a show. Think about that for a second. So do not be afraid out there to add a guard. You know, it doesn't even have to be a great guard. Just find four kids that are willing to do it in a two-way school. And uh they don't even have to be in band. You know, there's a lot of guards that the kids are not instrumentalist. They're just they just come in and they just do guard, and then they're like music librarians the second semester or they take another class, you know. So don't be afraid to utilize your guard in that respect because I just add so much to the program. And we get into this old souls versus the new marching arts kind of thing, you know. Um, if you're retired and you're an old soul, um that's fine. You talk, talk crap all you want to about, you know, this is not really marching band, you go for it. You you live your life, you know. I give you, I respect that. You you've you've done your thing. But if you're right now and you want to be in area marching and you want to try to advance to state marching, and you want to try to do something damaging down there to do well in the medalist, you'd better adopt this stuff. You it's not like a salmon swimming upstream. You're just you have no hope at all. You uh I in fact, there was a band a few years back, about 20 years ago, they won a band, played king march trios at the state marching contest. They made it all the way to state. One of the critiques from one of the judges was this music is not appropriate for a marching contest.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

It's kind of my opening salvo there.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah. So if you want to see where things have gone, that was 20 years ago. So it's it's gone further than that. So it is what it is. So going on with this.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

But even but take it away from being personal about the music choices, blah, blah, blah. It's just like my dad, God loving, cell phones became popular, or even wall phones. He was like, No, that's not a phone. A phone's a black thing that sits on a disc. That's the only thing I consider a phone. The rest of the world's talking on cell phone, dad. Yeah, so things you can argue with it, you can rail against it, but but but society is gonna move forward. Yeah, and they music world is gonna move forward.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, and even within the music world, try to explain to a junior high kid what a C D is.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Try to explain.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

My son-in-law tells me they're coming back, but yeah, yeah, but also try to explain to them that we used to buy music.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Explain dial up.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, so it's it's and I'm not saying the old way was better because it wasn't, the new way is better, but you're right, we're in a resurgence of people want something tangible to hold in their hands. They want liner notes and they want LPs.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

But yeah, it's uh not on the marching field.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Not on the marching field. We've got to, if you want to compete, you've got to evolve. Okay. Um brass can get rewarded. They can, um, but usually not as much as woodwinds. Ensembles, I think they should be rewarded more than soloists, but you know, you need to make a balance there. Some of it needs to be ensemble features, whether a brass ensemble, woodwind section, small groupings. Um, there's all those uh rules on how many you can mic. You know, I think is it is it 13? I'm not sure. I'd have to look it up now because I'm not competing daily on this. Um, but they're not usually rewarded as much as woodwinds. High brass and all brass in general, they get a lot more points if you can teach those kids how to double-tongue. Okay. And we're in a new era of uh of UIL marching. This is just my own conspiracy theory. For a long time, we were uh everything should sound like a concert band on the field. We went through that for what, about 20 years? Everything should be a concert band on the field. They're starting to open up. They're starting DCI and the all the groups in DCI have kind of convinced them that as long as we have a balance of soloist and our woodwind players or whatever, there's times the brass, they can kind of they can get they can open the throttle, you know. And we used to not have that, you know. So there's times when you want to make it where it's uh, you know, you can get them, get after them with some sound, some articulation, whatever. Um, but everything I've mentioned so far must adhere to the musical integrity of the show. There's an arc to the show. Just like there's an arc to our life. You're born, you die. What happens in between? You know, so the show is a beginning and end. What happens in between? So there's got to be an uh an overall arc that rises to a certain point, which in a perfect world would be two-thirds of the way through your timing. You know, the golden mean, you know what I mean? Two-thirds through. And then inside that, it should be tiny arcs. So we try to graph out the shows to where every 30 to 40 seconds, something interesting, if not exciting, happens. It might be a drill move, it might be a rifle toss, it might be a trumpet soloist, it might be a percussion feature, it might be a front ensemble thing, it might be a battery thing, it might be a combination of three things. Um, but every 45 seconds, something has to happen because in today's society, we get bored very quickly. Okay. Agreed. And even at my age of 63, I'll I'll be watching something on Netflix. And if I'm not engaged in the first five minutes, I'm going to something else. I'm not going to give time to develop.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

It's 30 seconds. You got to keep grabbing me.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, you got to give us something else to look at. My son, who is a he's not a musician by trade, but he said something to me really interesting. We were we were talking about a certain band. And uh he goes, Well, Dad, there's just no popcorn moments. I go, What's a popcorn moment? And I thought he meant like go buy popcorn, like the band's so bad, I'm just gonna go buy popcorn. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I'm talking about. You know, when you're eating your popcorn and the band does something, you look at the person next to you and you quit eating your popcorn and you go, Man, did you see that? That was cool. Yeah, it's a popcorn moment. You know, did you see the guard do quads with her rifles? Did you did you hear that trumpet soloist with that double G at the end of the show, and it was played well with no hangover? You know what I mean? So those are popcorn moments. So I've used that expression a lot. Those are popcorn moments. We need to have a popcorn moment every 30 to 40 seconds in our show. Cool. Um and then, you know, we need to have eight to 12 bar phrases where we do these features, but there has to be frequent rest moments. And I call it recovery time. Lots of people call it recovery time. I make it sound like I made up that term. I'm sorry. Um, but there needs to be recovery time. You cannot have your trumpet section playing nonstop for four minutes. Um above the staff.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, or even in the staff. Oh my gosh. By the time you incorporate all the body movement and all the nachos they've just eaten, you know, uh before the football game, you know, they're they're dead to the world by the time you get to that point. So there's got to be recovery time where their brain can think about the body movement and can think about what's happening and let the blood flow back into their lips and so they can play again and just mentally recover as well as physically recover. Okay. Um, and you've got to work on the mechanics of body movement. We're gonna do this is I don't think I've sprung this on you yet, Derek. We're gonna do a podcast with Michael Munoz from Denver City, and he uses a resistance band. They're about two inches wide and they're in different sizes depending on the kid, but it's one resistance band. And he's devised a method in which he can do all his body movement and strengthen the core muscles in your arms and legs and neck and feet by using this resistance band on different places on your body, and he does it inside his band hall with his band. And I think it's no coincidence when I happened to judge them last year at Lubbock. They probably had the most uh fluid body movement of any 3A band I've ever seen. You know what I mean? It's and so this is gonna be a really good one. It'll be more a YouTuber kind of thing because he's gonna show us with his resistance band. So I might we'll do the audio portion, of course, but we're gonna try to push people to the to the YouTube channel to say, hey, you need to see this man do this. Because he's uh it started with him using these resistance bands uh for him as a weight loss mechanism. And you should see him, man. He looks like uh Chuck Norris now. And he was he was always pretty well in shape, but man, that man has toned up and he said it's all these resistance bands. So it's he's gonna give us a podcast on that. So because that's I bring that up because that's the most common thing when band directors ask me after I see their state marching or their area marching or their region marching or whatever, and they say, What do I need to work on to make my band better? Most of the time it's not musicality, most of the time it's not actually body movement, most of the time it's core body strength.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

The kids and I think I just said that at the beginning. I don't know that I could without some training or without some physical um coaching, yeah, have been able to do a lot of the things that I see kids do on a marching field these days. That's pretty amazing. So awesome. That that'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, so we've got to give it time just like we learn scales and just like we learn the Remington warm-up or whatever. It has to be there. And again, uh just to reiterate a point in our music, the formula, not just drill-wise, but music-wise, a formula has to be accurate. It must be written where kids have recovery time. They've got to know that they they're gonna do this woodwind feature for uh, you know, 32 counts, and then they've got 32 counts of motion where they're gonna do body movement and they're gonna move and it's gonna be in three levels of dimension, where they they stage something, and then they do another woodwind feature. They've got to have that recovery time where their brain can click back and forth because I think it's important to realize that the human brain can only think of one thing at any given moment. It's impossible to consciously think of two things at exactly the same time. Just really intelligent people are good at switching back and forth really quickly. Not all our kids are at that level. Some of them you've got to give them that mechanism of okay, we've got 16 counts. Now we're gonna do body motion. Now you don't have to worry about playing your horn right here. Now we're gonna do our horn, you don't have to worry about doing your body. Does it make sense? You know, so we give them to to where they can where if they're if they're not as highly mature in their thinking, because our frontal cortex doesn't develop until what, like we're 25.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

60. Yeah.

unknown 17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I I always say men, all men are basically two-year-old toddlers. We just get trained how to cover it up. We just cover it up better. But in our heart, we see a two-year-old and go, Man, I miss those times. I wish I could act like a two-year-old. You know, those were the days. And just some things to kind of help out with uh as we get the kids working, you know, we we always want them to get a more sonorous big sound, right? You know, that that's a big word. Uh no one wants to have this thin, wimpy sound, you know. Um thin is wonderful if you're trying to lose weight, but uh, thin is not good if you're talking about tonal quality in a band. So I found that it's really good to get them in an enclosed environment for a while. Then, you know, like a band hall or gym, you know, like Denver City. I remember critiquing Michael's band on the as a judge, going, man, the drill just feels sort of cramped in a way. Yeah, so I think we could spread this out more. His drill was written to fit inside his band hall, his band hall is amazing. Isn't that amazing that you do your entire UIL drill in your band hall with yard lines on you? So he no matter what the weather, he can work. He even has two pickleball courts taped off on his band hall floor. The kids come and play pickleball after school. So there's nothing to do in Denver City. You know, sorry, Denver City. I I spent the night there, and there's, you know, the score dance festival was over, there's nothing else to do. Um, but you know, they have pickleball courts taped off in their band hall. So you do what you got to do. So, you know, you've got to be then you get them inside that environment and get them to where they can play, but that's still not the key, is it? It's a step, it's part of the process. Then you take them outside and make them face a brick wall. And then they hear the slap back from the sound. Then you move them further from the brick wall, then further from the brick wall. Then you put them on the marching field and then they hear it from the stands. But they've got to understand, they've got to memorize physically what it feels like to play at that volume with good sound without necessarily hearing the rest of the band. Because we've all been there, we just forget quickly. If you're a trumpet player on the 35-yard line on the back hash, you can't hear anything but the people right around you and maybe a tuba player over to the side and you get no personal feedback.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

No feedback. You have no field monitor that feeds back sound to you. So you've got to physically, what does my face feel like? What am I what are my ears gonna hear out here? What how does it feel to do? Can I taste that note? I'm not gonna get any feedback of where that note's at on the horn. I just need to know that a G above the staff tastes like this in my and I set my omitger and I play, you know. You have to have to have to have really good relative pitch. Okay. Um percussion parts have to be creatively written to sound full. I've seen some, I've heard some really hard percussion books that just sound like crap. Yeah, has nothing to do with the music whatsoever. It's just rata tata, rata tata, rata tat, rudiment, paradiddle, Swiss Army, triplet, whatever, who cares? You know, it's just it's just mindless white noise coming out of a battery.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

It's not complimentary.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

It's not complimentary to anything going on on the field except for look at us, look at us, look at us. And, you know, that's the guard's job. The guard's job is to be look at us, look at us, look at us. That's what we want the guard to do. We do not want the battery or front ensemble to do that unless it's a specific tiny moment in the show. Otherwise, everyone's there to compliment everyone else in the deal.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

So But you know, that's almost like a middle finger to the director and the rest of the band if if you write a book that you don't really care what anybody else is doing. This is gonna be what we want to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, it's so complex that we're just showing off what we can do, but it has nothing to do with what the rest of the band's doing. So it's just a consideration because there's still time to manipulate that that drum book. Okay. Um, part A and B breathing, you know, put in breath marks, they'll figure. You know, have a I call it a breathing plan. Make sure there's a breathing plan um as you're playing. Because so many times I'll go to work a band and I'll say, Okay, now how are we doing this like sixteen count where there's four whole notes tied together at the end of the opener? Who breathes where? And they'll look at you like, what? We take a breath when we run out of air. Okay, that's not really. The smart way to do it. How about we plan? It's like me taking a trip in my car to Atlanta, Georgia, and going, I think I'll just run out of gas and then I'll look for a gas station.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

I like that game with my wife. She's not very appreciative.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

I didn't mean to touch a nerve there. Sharon is correct. That's really stupid. I think we can make it. When you get to a quarter tank, it's you know, pull over and fill up. You know, so just kind of have a breathing plan. Um, you know, keys. And now this is this is probably too late at this point to do it, but just make sure that it's nothing outside the keys that your band is used to playing in. You're not going to teach them how to play in the key of concert C or the key of concert B within the key of C sharp on trumpet. That's not going to be a very worthwhile process when we could have just put them in B flat instead of B natural. You know, and there's there's directors who do that. And I don't know why. I don't know why sometimes, you know, really smart composers like Luke McMillan um don't do that. You know, they they've they've custom fit the show to that band. If the band has that ability, let's use it because we get that really bright sonority if we're in a brighter key, you know. Right. But if the band can't do it, easily, then don't mess with it.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Keep the parts real. Well, let's pull back to our coachable episode. It's on you if you are forcing people to do things that A, they don't know how to do, or B, they're just not at that comfortable place in their journey yet. You've got to make it something that they can go, hey, we can be successful with this.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And in football season, marching season, you don't have time to teach the key of concert B.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, that better have happened in eighth grade if you're gonna do it in ninth grade. But otherwise, don't do it. Play what they can play. I I've been it's just not that hard. I've been a finalist in state marching in class 3A with a grade two marching show. Think about that. You know, and uh now it would not even it wouldn't do anything in today's art form because they've progressed to where now three A bands sound like five A's did 15 years ago. You know, we've progressed that far, you know. So uh but you've got to make sure it's done correctly in that manner. Make sure the parts are written in the middle range of the staff. If you look at that and you go, my trombones have trouble playing above a D on top of the staff, then if they have high Fs and E flats written all through the piece, that's gonna be a problem. Okay, because uh, you know, um you've got to find what I call the sweet spot on the on every every section. And you should give that to the arranger, or if you're using uh, you know, just standard stock arrangements, you've got to be willing to change some things in there. You know, you can't change a whole lot when we get into copyright things, but I don't think any stock arrangement should be played verbatim, it should be tailor-fit to your band to some extent.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

You know, good word, good word.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, and so you know, one thing I do in drill, try to avoid uh 90 degree slides where it's a full slide.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

They're going straight to me like I'm ignorant zone.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah, you know, they're facing the front, and then you're telling them, okay, now point your toes at the end zone and march at a 90-degree slide and go straight towards the end zone while your bell's painted pointed straight forward. It can be done.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

It's a really hard torque on your torso, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah, and the younger your band is, some of my friends out there march eighth graders, some march seventh graders. You're really asking for trouble on that.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Just simply just made that diaphragm really hard to use when you do that.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, just ask your drill rider to uh instead of going straight across the field, can we go 16 counts to our left and end up four steps forward in the drill, so it's not quite an angle? And I did that for years, and not one judge ever called me on it. They might have noticed it and didn't like it. I don't know, but they never once said that's not a true 90-degree slide. Right. Because you can't hardly tell that from the press box. If it's only four steps forward, that's two and a half yards. You know, they move two and a half yards forward as they move 16 steps across the field to their right, but it looks really, really good, you know, because the hips are right and the shoulders are right. Okay. Um try to keep the intervals consistent in the motion. If there's a lot of expansion and intervals and a lot of uh, you know, contraction intervals, that's that's good in a few moments. But if it happens over and over and over, we're in trouble, okay? Um, and just a few things to kind of throw in there when you're dealing with your drill rider, because that's where we're at right now with when this podcast comes out, more the drill rider. Right, right. Make sure you give them the right MP3 files. Make sure they're converted correctly for highware. It's I've you know, they'll give them like the one that they had in April, and then all of a sudden in May, they changed all the show. Clearly numbered measures, and the percussion book aligns precisely with the wind book. I mean, that sounds common sense, but these are all problems that occur. Practice you practice field limitations. The Denver City band haul.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Okay, tell me what that means.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Okay, it makes sense. If you have a drainage hole on your practice field on the 30-yard line, then you tell the drill rider do not write front hash 30-yard line side one, because that's a 10 foot across slimy drainage hole that has a grill, a grid on it, a grill, and we just can't march on that. So that's going to be like a prop written on your practice field when the drill rider's writing. Um, Marcus High School has that, by the way. They're an amazing band, but they've got drainage holes on their field, and those are written into the drill.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

One of my favorite examples, good friend Tim Edens, Hamilton, Texas. Smaller town, for those that don't know where Hamilton is. His marching field, uh the from the near hash to the sideline is fairly level, but right about halfway across the field, we got a slope that goes. Yeah. I can't even tell you what the degree of that is, but I'm thinking Mr. Edans doesn't do a whole lot of riding for the backside of the field.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah, yeah. It's just uh yeah. I can that's a small. I mean, I'm talking steep. Yeah, it's like a 18-wheeler would be concerned about burning out their brakes on that one, you know. So you've got to know, and that that's part of the the entry to hill country in Texas. So you you got to understand what you're dealing with. Um, make sure to discuss with your drill rider guard equipment changes and transitions so it doesn't look like just like kids throwing stuff to the sideline. It has to all look graceful.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Um it's a great thing. I'm glad you said that because there have been several times I'm like, well, that's one way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

That's one way to do it. Yeah, they'll just throw their crap, you know, 15 yards to get off the field, and then they'll run up there spastic like and pick up some other piece of equipment. You're going, we probably could have done that a lot more gracefully if the drill rider would have like kind of worked us into it, you know. Um make sure that all your materials you give to the drill rider are in one location. Is it a Google Drive? Is it a Dropbox for reference? And have people have edit functions on that, you know, so we can just pull it up in one place. So your poor drill rider's not trying to access three different platforms to get it.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Um and I might say name your files logically.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah, name them by the the school name and when it was created. You know, it's not, you know, file 1416, this, this, this, you know, it's like whatever code you understand doesn't necessarily translate to your drill rider. Yeah, you're exactly right. And uh, you know, and get a quick response. If you're lucky enough to have a guard person that helps out with your stuff, talk it over with them. Don't surprise them with your drill. Oh, by the way, ta-da, here's your drill. We've already done the routine for the opener. Yeah, but it's it's it's different now. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

And now we're doing a new one.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, we're doing a new one because talk about, you know, because you wouldn't put up with that from your drill rudder going. I know I've given you all the stuff and we've gone through the first two weeks of school, but I've decided to change the opener on you. We we wouldn't put up with that. Why should our guard person put up with that? And uh I had a win friends, yeah, and make sure your numbers are correct. You know, it's uh I put on my sheet the correct number of base clarinets. This actually was a problem because I had like six base clarinets, then two moved, and they wrote two extra spots. To me, it was two extra spots, but it's what I gave the drill rider. And so I'm like, well, we got to change that. The drill rider's going, well, it'd been nice if you'd have told me, you know, when you knew that, because I could have changed it in the second part of the show and in the clothes room, we would have to redo the entire thing. Or now we're gonna have to stick like two clarinets in there that aren't good marchers, and it's gonna look really stupid because we have two soprano clarinets marching in the middle of the low reeds. You see what I'm saying? You know, just be proactive, you know, go to your drill rider. So those those are just some things, um things to think about. One more to just throw in there impact moments. If you're having trouble tuning impact moments or getting that band sonority you want, a real easy fix, take out the third of the chords. Just turn them into power chords.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

I've heard you say that before.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, just have the root and the fifth and just uh and select areas. We don't want to do that all the time because we lose tonality. But if it's a big hit, it's that third is interpreted by the everyone's brain.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Right. Your reasoning is your brain will hear the third.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, your brain will hear it. Um now if you do that through the whole show, it's gonna be a nightmare because it'll just sound like weird open fifths the whole show.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Basically, it's power chords on a guitar.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

It's power chords on a guitar, yeah. And uh, you know, John Mackey uses that in his concert music a lot, and it's very effective. Uh, use it in your marching show. Just if it's not working out, you're not getting the impact you want, the tuning's not quite lining up. It's the third of the core that's screwing it up because the the fifth and the root, you know, the fifth has to be what two cents sharp to sound right in minor and major. It's the third of the chord that shifts by 14 cents, you know. So just get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Just cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Play the concert B flat, play a concert F, go. You know, just play it. You know, so that that's my ideas of things to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Okay. Um I I think that you have a book that you would actually recommend for some of this. Yes, no?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

As far as talent code. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is a really good one for my YouTube friends on the channel, the talent code. I'm holding cool. Um, Daniel Coyle. And it kind of talks about, you know, greatness isn't born, it's grown. And Derek and I have had this conversation. I think we're both right in different degrees. In different degrees. Um, but I think we can take talent and grow it. And uh, I think part of it is innate. You know, some people are more natural. I mean, my grandsons are brilliant. I mean, it's obvious. Of course, you know, so they're brilliant. Um, so you know, it's it's it's all very uh objective, you know, in that regard. So, you know, you can you can grow talent as well. So a lot of it goes into that as far as you know how we design our show, how are we gonna grow our talent? We're not gonna teach all new musical ideas to make this happen, but we can grow our talent culturally through our band and incorporate the things we've done and make it easier for those those performers. Oh my gosh, it's so hard.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

So I'm gonna I'm going to uh uh tell you that I've this is you know, some things you tell me, I go, okay. Some things I have to chew on them for a while.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Um so I'm going to uh tell you this brief story about the talent versus uh teaching aspect of it. And that's probably not the right way to say that. I I think I will, and again, I laugh because I say this to myself when you're talking, I'll say in my head, I say uh the things that bring us together are more than the things that tear us apart. We're we're closer on that than it probably feels like sometimes. But there's a young lady on YouTube, her name's Ellen. She plays bass guitar. Ellen plays bass. If you want to check it out, it's pretty phenomenal. She's a tiny little girl. Oh but she's a fantastic bass. I don't know who you're talking about. Yeah. Little bitty kid. Right, and she's more she's still 12 or 13. She's still uh, but but the things that she does, I mean, she's playing a Jocko Pastorius. If you're a bass player, that means something to you. But if not, he's really good. Um so uh, but one thing she was to hear her say this, she's talking about how much she practiced. And she put it off like, Yeah, I only practice probably five days a week. And the guy that was hosting her said, Well, why only five? You know, he was being silly about it. He was like, That's a lot of practice. She goes, Well, Saturdays I have this scheduled, and uh this other day I just did something really strenuous the day before, typically. So I just try to keep those out. And he goes, Well, why do you practice that much? She goes, Because practice is what it's about. Yeah, teaching and learning is what it's about. It doesn't matter if I think I'm talented. If I don't practice, it doesn't matter. It's not going to happen, it's not going to get recognized unless I put in the time and I seek out lessons and I seek out advice and and I spend the time, and she says probably two to three hours a day. For a 13-year-old to practice that much on a base is pretty phenomenal to me. It is. But but I'm I'm arguing for your uh your stance that however talented you are or aren't, I have gotten to the point it doesn't really I think less talented people, and again, I guess the argument is talent's not really a factor at all. But people that work harder are more successful.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

It's amazing how much luckier you are when you put in the time.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

There's no doubt about that. Yeah. I'm glad you're probably succumbed to my way of thinking. If it was all in one talent, there'd be no need for lessons.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

And it translates so well to what we're talking about today because everybody's like, well, I can't afford this, or I can't buy that, or I can't do this. But you can put in the time and you can figure it out. You can look at your group and say, We have this and we have this and we have this, and what can I do to make them successful? What can we work on so people aren't concentrating on what we don't have?

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Because they're so busy focused on how great we do what we do.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Right. I'm with you 100%. So I'm just glad you found that way of thinking.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

I think that's a valid point to talking about designing your show. Quit wishing. Yeah. And figuring out who you are. Oh, that's the mantra of what you have.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Quit wishing and start working. That needs to be our bumper sticker.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Look at us.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Quit wishing and start working.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

So I'm still amazed that uh, you know, in the spring semester, we're already behind the eight ball. If we haven't started thinking about this, and I don't want to uh make anybody put any weight on anybody, but if you haven't started, let's start thinking because August is too late. Yeah, July's too late, June's too late.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

If if you haven't panicked, Jeff, this is the time to panic.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

If we haven't panicked, this is the time.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

This is your warning to panic. Well, Star Trek. This is time for brother Wilson.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

And I'm sure you're mentally shifting from concert uh consulting to uh marching consulting in your brain because that's where we are. All right.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I'm already studying scores and MP3 files.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Awesome. Well, man, I I tell you this as much as I can. Number one, I love you, just to make it awkward. And love you too, man. Also, also, I appreciate so much that you're willing to uh I was gonna say regurgitate. It probably doesn't sound like the best way to put it, that you're willing to share all of the things that have shaped you into a successful person. And just I'm I'm encouraging everybody out there. We talk about mentors and we talk about coaching and we talk I have a sign, it's right here actually. I'm I'm and it it says there uh there's no lack of knowledge out there, just a shortage of asking for help. Yeah, and I put that there so I can see it all the time. I don't have to be the smartest guy, I just can't be scared to say help. Yeah. So I appreciate you being a helper. You bet. Um hey man, have a beautiful week. Sun's starting to shine more, it's getting a little bit warmer. Yeah. And we're both skinny enough now that we don't have to go, oh God, the sun.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yeah. I could get really gross on that, but we won't get there. Just let it go. All right, Mike. Have a great week, brother. We'll see you later. Bye.