Leaving A Job: Traveling the High Road

Whether you are leaving for greener pastures, or you're leaving because it's just time to leave, there IS a right way to leave a job. Consider the next person in line, consider the program as a whole, consider your students. "Burn it to the ground!" might seem like it will make you feel better, but will it? And if you're leaving for what you consider a better job, don't you hope the person leaving that position sets you up for the best transition possible? The high road isn't always the easiest path, but it is worth it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

People may know this about me by now. I'm not really an early early morning person. I've become one because out of necessity. Yeah. But uh I think you, my friend, are much more an early morning type.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

I am. I mean, even our marching band practices, our warm-up was at 6 45 in the morning. But the payoff was, and the kids, they didn't like being up there that early, but there was nothing after school. So that was a good thing. They could go to church or hang out with their friends or go to work or whatever. But yeah, I'm a morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

That's one of the ways I know it's fall when it's dark and I hear a band.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yeah. Or you hear kunk, kunk, kunk, kunk, kunk, kunk. That's how I find my next clinic. I just drive around aimlessly and listen for metronomes.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

So this is uh kind of a random segue into today's episode, but next fall there may be several people uh doing that in a new place. Oh, yeah. And that's good. Yay for everyone. But that also means that this spring, all those people going to a new place are going to be leaving where they've been, whether that's for a long time or a short time, but there's an exit happening. And uh I think you and I both have been in a position, uh, you know, a manager leadership position where we've watched people leave. Yeah. And and maybe we've had the opportunity. Uh I don't think you moved around very much. And you know, I've been doing the same thing for 30 years. So uh but I think it's interesting to hear from your vantage point some observations, some insights that you've learned. Because I'm gonna say that I bet there are occasions where the tendency is to drop a match and walk away. Just hope it burns down. Yeah. I don't I don't know that I think that's the best way to do it, but I'm gonna ask you when we're leaving, because we're in that season.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, yeah. It's all over my social media feed, it's in my messages, it's superintendent's calling, it's band directors calling. Um, but man, Derek, it it's something. I mean, there's uh it's it's obvious to anyone, I think, that we have these core emotions, you know, whether it be dread, fear, happiness, excitement, uh, what whatever that core emotion is that's being triggered at that moment. The scariest thing for me, maybe scary is a little overdramatic on that, um, but the more most stressful thing is the fact that in the event of moving from one job to another, especially, I I think, especially in the field that I've lived in, um, is the mixture of those emotions. You know, because you're you're scared to death about the next job, you're excited about the next job, you're uh worried about what's going to happen maybe with your program. You might hate your administrator with a passion that you wish their car would just explode in the parking lot. And, you know, it's it's it's you know, there's all these weird emotions that go back and forth. You mentioned about, you know, you know, just hoping it'll you know, just dropping everything and have it burned down. I know directors who have quit on retirement and just quit in the middle of band rehearsal. Wow. And just uh not angry, just put down their baton on the podium and just said, uh, thank you guys. Um, I'm gonna be stepping out for just a bit and go down to the front office and turn in your laptop and your keys and your badge and go, yeah, I'm just gonna turn in my papers for retirement. So I I don't want to do this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

You know, I've I've heard those things. That's one way to leave. But just whatever it was that clicked, I'm just done. I'm just not gonna do this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

And I know it's it's almost cliche, isn't it, to say that, but it for me it was true. It was true. There there was a moment to where and it wasn't an anger thing by any means. It was just a moment of uh, I'm finished. It it's time. You know, things lined up in a good way for me at that moment. That is like, you know, I can retire and I can be financially stable, and I don't have to do this anymore. And in our TRS system, the one I graduate graduated from, listen to me, graduated. I'm matriculated as a band director. The one I graduated from, we'll just stick with that word. That's that's that's okay. We're gonna graduate from our job. Um, but what I came from, it's it's a lot different than what the young people are facing today because they have, you know, it's the TRS system is changing dramatically. But you get to a point in TRS where for each year after you're eligible to retire, in the system I graduated under, um, you get an extra 2.3% retirement. So you start to figure out, let's say, just throw out numbers, let's say I'm making$50,000 a year as a band director. Okay. And my retirement's going to be$40,000 a year. So right now I'm doing that whole job for$10,000 a year, aren't I? Right. And each year I work more, then all of a sudden it gets closer and closer to where I had a wonderful athletic director who when he retired, he'd worked for 36 years at Wiley ISD. And he retired at the time he could make uh he was make he actually took a uh a pay raise to retire because his retirement was 3% higher than his current salary because he was at 103% in retirement. So he was actually paying the school his last year to do the job because they had just gone into 5A and he just said, I'm just not gonna dump this on somebody else. I'm you know, this is gonna be tough. And so so I need to stick it out. That's why I go, man, you so you're gonna pay the school 3% of your income to show up every day and go to football games and take all the vicious, you know, right, you know how fans are, you know. Coffee talk, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So and I think about that, and I go, you know, that that's quite the I don't know if I'd have done that, you know. I think I'd I'd have left. But you know, but it kind of goes to the fact that sometimes when it's time to retire, you just know, and then sometimes you know that financially it's the best situation to do. Uh my wife at the time and I, we were both on our system of retirement to where uh the last one of us who died got all the retirement. You know what I mean? So if I died, she would get all my retirement. If she died, I got her retirement until I died. And my financial planner looked at that and goes, Mike, you need to retire as quickly as you can. I said, Well, why? He said, Well, because if you die today, then your wife would receive what's in your TRS account, which would be the same amount as five years of your retirement. So those lines met at five years. So, or you could retire today, and then if you die the next day, this is so morbid to talk about, but if you die the next day, then your wife will receive your retirement income for the rest of her life, which might be 30 more years. Right. So that's 25 more years. So financially, it didn't make any sense to not retire. But you know, on the emotional side, it was time. It was time. Uh I felt like I was still productive. I mean, our band went to did their thing, and we went to our little state marching contest, and we made our sweepstakes, and and we had lots of kids in the program. And it's uh, but deep down in my dark, tired soul, I was like, I just I want to do something different. I want to do something different for a bit, you know. So that's something to think about, you know, back to those core uh emotions that come into play. So, you know, going from one job to another, you know, we've got to figure out in advance. And I have this discussion with a lot of directors, we you've got to figure out in advance how are you gonna handle this? Don't let it just happen by emotion. Don't let your emotions override your intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I think that not just leaving the place, but life in general, if we could just learn that, don't follow emotion.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, emotions are a wonderful thing, but don't let them dictate your actions in something as super important as because I mean our jobs are partly our identity.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Right. We invest who we are into that, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Yeah. And it's it's our financial stability. I mean, we we go to the grocery store, they they don't they don't let you buy groceries on love alone, you know. So yeah, it's the card's got to clear, baby. You know, so it's our financial stability, it's our insurance plan for medical care, it's how we take care of our kids, it's how we take care of our family. It's such an important part of our life. And on top of that, with uh core emotions, you know, our I'll just call them this, our family at work is only second to our family at home. You know, there's no other group of people that are closer to you and know the good of you, and more importantly, know the bad of you.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

You know, they've seen you as well. It's the sheer volume of time we spend with them.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, especially in uh what we do in our field as band directors. We'll we'll have you know 20-hour days on a Friday where we just and we'll, you know, there's times when we'll snap at each other and we'll, you know, and then we we have to apologize and get back together because we're hey guys, we're all stuck in this, we're all in the same boat, we got to start rowing together. So I apologize for getting upset and yelling and whatever because we all make mistakes. So all that comes into play, you know. So when we're looking at moving to a different job, we've got to figure out intellectually uh what do we need to do? Um, how do we approach this to make it better for the next person coming in? Um, how do we, and we're gonna go over that in this podcast. More importantly, maybe how do we leave this position so that emotionally the program is doing well? You know, we we don't want to go up and stand in front of them and go, yeah, this is just a sheer train wreck and I'm getting out of here tomorrow, you know, and walk out the door, you know. So these kids, uh though even the ones that don't like you, because every band has every band I've ever taught, I've had kids that like me, I've had kids that don't like me. And I've had a lot of kids. Kids that don't like you? Well, yeah, yeah, no kidding. And then I had a lot of kids that could care less who the band director was. And I learned that lesson from my preacher.

unknown 10:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

He said in a church, 10% of your congregation thinks that no matter what you say is the word of God coming straight through my body. There's 10% that no matter what I say, I'm Satan on earth. There's 80% that just want to go to church and they could really care less who the minister was.

unknown 10:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And band's they want to play Iron Man in the stands and they want to play pep rallies, and it's like, oh, he he's the one in charge or she's the one in charge. I don't give a rip. You know, where do I sit on the bus? Do I get to sit next to my girlfriend? You know what I mean? So, you know, they have their priorities. So we've got to figure out a way to make it uh emotionally satisfying for everyone involved. And if it makes you feel better to burn a bridge, I'm not saying that's wrong. I'm not saying it's not the best approach. But, you know, if you're if you're willing to burn that bridge and know you're never going to need that bridge, then I guess all power to you. Go ahead and burn that bridge.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

You know, right. I would say it this way. Every action has a consequence. If you're willing to accept those consequences, then that's one way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, yeah. And so make that decision very carefully. Don't make it at the heat of the moment. Make sure that it's some, you know, you know, have that 24 hours cooling off period of where you're thinking of doing it. Talk to some friends about, you know, you're looking at different jobs. Um, and uh I'll say this too, that you know, sometimes I think we as directors get caught up in the fact that uh, you know, I don't want to leave these kids because these kids are important to me. And I think that's great. But uh Pony Thompson, what a great name, huh? Pony Thompson. He was the band he was the band director at Ryder High School in Wichita Falls for like millennia, you know. Great, great man. But I was talking to him one time, going from one school to another right around Wichita Falls, and I told him just verbatim, I said, uh, you know, man, I really love these kids at this school, and I just, I just, you know, I just don't want to leave them because I don't know who's gonna come in, I don't know what's gonna happen. And he goes, Mike, those kids you're going to deserve you just as much as the kids you're leaving. Uh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

He said, uh, if you've got to do what's he said, now is this right for your family? And I said, Yes, it is. It's it's gonna be a stronger program, it's gonna be a better pay, it's gonna be better scheduling, it's gonna be one more band director on staff. Um, said there's there's a lot of upside to this. And it's uh and my wife at the time and I would be working at the same job. That was the first time we team taught together, and it was we did a great job team teaching together, you know. Um she's one of the greatest band directors I think I've ever met. You know what I mean? And I and of all things, I gotta throw out a sideline thing. She she's remarried now and she wanted to go back to work in Georgia. And how many ex-husbands have written a letter of recommendation for their ex-wife? Good for you. I just thought that was a cool side story. You know, I was like, yeah, she's an amazing band director. And I I wrote out this letter and it was sent to her first so she could proofread it because, you know, make sure everything's kosher. Right. I just thought that was just hilarious that you know, after I sent it, I thought, how many ex-husbands have written letters of recommendation for their ex-wives?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah, but what a great testament that she trusts you enough to ask you to even do that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we had our issues and whatever, but it was never within the band programs. You know, we we had, oh my gosh, uh, 21 years of teen teaching, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

So in those situations, I'll go ahead. Mike, let me jump back real quick on because I've I was obvious I never taught, everybody knows that, but I've been in positions where I worked with young people, and when I left that, I had to wrestle with this, and maybe you can I'm seeing if you agree with this. That I was so possessive of my position with those kids that those were my kids, that this was my, my, my. And I had to actually, and you know, without getting overly spiritual about it, I ask God, I don't I don't know how to let this go and be reminded that they they were never mine. Right. That was just a position that I shared with these kids. It was our program for the season that I was there, but nothing was mine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

I don't know if if Oh, yeah, I I can tell you about a perfect example of what you're talking about. I helped out at the school I retired from doing their in-house solo and ensemble contest. Okay. So I'm upstairs where I'm in the uniform room. They cleared it out. Where there's about two or three of us listening to soloists, you know, so they stuck us in closets and in the kids. I'm in the closet. Yeah, they put me in the uniform room. Uh it's actually a really nice room, to tell you the truth. That sounded bad to say it that way. It was really a really big room. Um, but this kid came in, he was an all-state sax player in the 5A band, played his solo, just absolutely incredible. Talked to him for a while. He he left. But here's the story. He's going down the hall. There's another kid coming down the hall. We're in the second floor of the music facility, and the he asked the saxphone player, he goes, Who's in there? He goes, I don't know, some old guy. Were those kids mine? I guess not, because I worked there for 19 years of blood and sweat, and now I'm just some old guy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Some old guy. And so I but I think that's my point. But we all invest ourselves so much. We think we're that feel like it's us.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah. Yeah. It's we are important. Your mama says so. Um, we are important. Uh, but you know, we're not as important. Uh the program will survive without us. If I fall off the podium and, you know, never return again. Guess what? Next fall, they're gonna have a Friday night football game and they're gonna have a band there. And it's uh in in a lot of cases, it might be a better band. You know, it I don't want to be so self-centered to think, oh man, can this thing live without me? Oh, it can live easily without you. I'm the least important cognitive machine.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Great philosopher David Lee Roth said, Life goes on without me.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

I'm just of course we're talking two different parts, two different fields of uh of uh employment there.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

But I guess the point is we inflate our own self-worth sometimes, and I think that's what leads to some of the negative emotions.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yes, yeah, it does. It does. So, you know, as we go through this, you know, make sure to uh you know if time permits, make sure to say your proper goodbyes. You know, and I say if time permits, because if you if you all of a sudden decide that you're going to a different job or someone calls you and now you're gonna move to Houston and it's like July 4th or July 5th, and it's like the day before the 45-day rule, and you know, it makes it hard. You know, it so if time permits, you know, it's it's okay to just talk to the band about what you're doing. You know, and for me, my band, when I retired, I knew I was gonna retire. And uh my whole last year I knew I was gonna retire. And I told them during summer band. I told them, I said, hey guys, I just want you to know. So uh, and this this is gonna be so you can hold me accountable to keep working for the whole year. Right so you'll know what's going on. I said, I've decided that at the end of this year I'm gonna retire. So I just say that because I want you to know where my mind is. I'm gonna tell you why I'm gonna retire. And uh went through the process and reassured them that the ones that actually liked me, you know, reassured them that uh, you know, said uh this has nothing to do with you as a musician. This has nothing to do with the quality of the program. Um, I'm not going to a different job. Um, you know, I just went through the whole process with them, and it only took about five minutes, you know. And then they were all just like, no, okay, cool. Kids are resilient. You know, well, do you think they ask any questions about what I was gonna do? What was what do you think was their first question?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Who's next?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

That's right. Who's next? You know, what slice of pizza we get next, buddy? Right. That was and I understand that. You know, it's like, well, who's gonna be our director? You know, it wasn't a matter of, oh, Mr. Lenny, we're gonna miss you. Oh no, we're it's the end of an era. The program's gonna die. His pro we're gonna have to take down all the awards and things. And no, no, it was like, uh, okay, Mr. Lenny, good. Thank you for sharing. Who's the next band director? Because I've got to get ready. But just some things to do. Uh, you know, I I put some templates on my uh on the notes that I gave to Rick, the man in the chair, and he's gonna post those. And and they're just it'll be in a word format, so you can use those and you know, change them up as you want to. And I'm not gonna read through them because it just it just kind of goes through the idea of uh giving thanks to the good things that have happened, because no matter how good or bad a job was to you as a person, there's always some good and there's always some bad. Uh, focus on the good. You know, thank the district for hiring you. They didn't have to hire you. Um, now maybe they didn't treat you right and now you're going somewhere different, but still thank them for hiring you. Um, and you know, and thank the band parents, thank the kids, you know, make it a make it a true uh thank you. Make it a true thank you. And uh one thing that comes to mind, uh just kind of a random thought, but an important thought. Um sometimes directors are afraid to go to their admin to tell them they're looking for a job. Rightfully sound rightfully so, because it's like, you know, are you not loyal to us anymore? You know, now you want a budget and you're telling me you're looking for a job or whatever. But you know what? And and I I moved like four times, so it wasn't a whole lot of times. I I'm just kind of a stick in the mud. I just get somewhere and I just try to make it what I want to make it, and that's good and that's bad. Um, but I've never had when I've told an administrator, hey, I'm looking at this particular job or I'm looking at this, um, every single time it was always the same thing. So they'd say, we would never fault a person for wanting to better their life. And we thank you for the work you've done here. You know, said but said, uh, but we're in your corner. Please put me down as a reference, you know. And when you leave, you're kind of thinking, is he trying to get rid of me? Are they happy about this? Yeah, are they they're I leave the room and I hear, yeah, Lonnie's finally leaving. But but you know, but uh I think uh if you work for decent administration, which is not always the case, I've had some really good administrators, except my first one at Throckmorton, Texas was an idiot. But uh besides him, besides him, I've had good administrators that have now trusted me to the level where now they call me and say, hey, we're looking for a band director at this school, uh, where they're at now. You know, they might have been an assistant principal, now they're a superintendent at a 3A school somewhere. Hey, so it's kind of cool to have that relationship. But you know, don't be afraid to share with them because they're not going to be upset with you, I don't think. Um, at least they never were in my situation. And plus, more importantly, you do not want them blindsided. Right. You don't want them to start that conversation. Hey, Mike, I just got a call from Katie, Texas from their fine arts director. You've you've applied at the Deer Park Seven Lake, whatever Moose High School, whatever their high school is. You know, they have like seven schools are all named after Deer Lakes and possums and whatever. I don't know what they they just name them after all kinds of random stuff. But you don't want your administrator coming to you and go, Mike, we we understand that uh you've applied at this job. I got a call from a principal. You know, that's a bad conversation, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

You you better don't never let your admin be blindsided, no matter how much you think of them. Or how little you think of them, don't let them be blindsided because especially the ones you don't think much of, guess what? They don't think much of you either. Right. And guess what? Secondly, they can really wreak havoc in your life. You know, all it takes is someone called in for a reference, and they'll go, Oh, Mike Lenny. Yes, he worked here from fall 1998 till spring of 2019. Can you tell me about him? He was employed as a band director here from the fall of 1998 through the spring of 2019. Well, anything you want to share? He worked here from the fall of 1998. And that's the code. That's the code we use and references. And I do that sometimes as well when they ask me about someone. I just tell them when I started to know them and now that I still know them. And they say, Well, can you tell us about them? And I just kind of repeat it like I'm a POW, repeating my serial number and rank.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

You know, rank and serial number.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

You know, they they they figure it out. They go, Oh, oh. Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for yeah, that's what they always say. Thank you for your time. We appreciate you. I say, Well, no problem. You know, so we we hang up and we're done with it. You know, so be aware that the administrator you might hate the most can cause the most damage in your career for the next 10 years. Right. They could be vindictive enough, they can follow you. They can follow you, you know, they can figure it out. So I'm just saying that as a word of warning, you know. Sure. Don't burn a bridge unless you just have to. You know, unless you just have to, you know. Yeah. Some things to do for the next director after you're leaving. You know, you know, you're prepping the kids for the transition. Talk with them before the year's out if you can about the rival of the new person. Be positive. Um, when I came aboard in the school in Abilene, um, Lewis Thornton was the band director. He'd been there for I guess 11 years. And uh he was really good to me because uh I came to sign my contracts on a day that they were having school in May. And uh he said, Why won't you come over by the band hall? I want to introduce you to the kids.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

That's nice.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

You know, that way he goes, Hey, this is Mike Lenny. He came to us, he's coming to you from this school, and I'm gonna give him a few minutes to talk to you a little bit. So I just want you to know he's a good person, he's a good band director. So his uh he's got your interest as the top priority in his mission for this band program because I'm retiring and I feel very comfortable turning this program over to this young man at the time I was. That's really cool. So that just that made it a whole lot easier when all of a sudden the kids at after the end of the rehearsal would come up and start talking to me. And it just made it so much easier instead of uh, well, I'm retiring this school's a piece of crap, and I I don't I don't care what happens to the band. You know, and had those things are said to bands, you know. Right. So some things you can do, uh leave a detailed packet uh both on your desk and hard copy and maybe some sort of uh flash drive or whatever. Don't leave it on your school computer and expect the new director to be able to get into your school computer because they will, oh my gosh, they they will totally just you know just destroy everything from the IT department, all your email trails, everything just gets archived somewhere. It's not destroyed, it's archived, you know, that way they can come back at you later, I suppose. But they archive everything. So you're that director does not have access necessarily to your computer. So leave all that stuff for them, leave an inventory. Include what horns might be with students for band camp, what students are at the repair shop, what uh what students are at the repair shop? Yeah, we're gonna get the students repaired. Well, sometimes that's a necessity, you know. What students are in therapy. What do we call that? Attitude adjustment. Attitude adjustment. We're sending them to a therapist. Um, but no, what horns are at the music store, what horns are at band camps, um, what horns are getting overhauled, you know, because that might not get back to the band director until November, but he'll see this tuba on the inventory. Show up.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Uh it'll help them uh navigate the process. It'll also help you because they won't be calling you with a thousand questions, because they will have a thousand questions, rightfully so, especially if you don't leave that. Um a student roster with contact info, whatever the school allow you to leave to them. Okay, the student leadership roster with contact info. That would be if I'm coming in as a new band director, uh, that would probably be the first thing I'd want to look at. You know, have some kind of meeting with the student leadership, um, a band parent roster with contact information of the officers, and what duties do they serve in the band? What is what are the roles of vice president in your band? Who runs the marching festival? Um, who who does the who sets up the band banquet? You know, give them all that stuff. Um, a really important one, I'll say that because we're sponsored by Tarpley Music, your music store roadman contact information, you know, meet with the music store, you know, and and tell them so they're not blindsided. Hey, hey, Derek, man, I'm going to this new gig over down in Houston. And I know, you know, Tarpley doesn't have a store right now in Houston. Um, but I just want you to know the guy coming in or the lady coming in, this is her name, um, this is where she's coming from. Um, she will be at the school at given days. And if you want me to, I'll I'll call her and you can set up an appointment so your road person can meet with her. You know, uh be courteous in that regard. You know, it might be old-fashioned. I don't know. I grew up in the era where uh every Tuesday or Wednesday in football season, if you were the home band director, you called the visiting band director. You know, we actually called on a phone. We actually talked to them and said, uh, yeah, we we'd say, hey, yeah, this is where your buses will be parked. And is there anything you need? Here's my cell number. Um, whatever things you need, just let me know. If something happens during the game, you need some help, let me know. Uh, you just kind of put up the welcome mat to them. Later on, that turned into a really quick phone call because I had a big, huge packet. I would just say, I, is this your current email? I'm gonna send you the packet, it's gonna have maps and everything. You know, just whatever you can do. But we need to do that for the next band director, and we need to do that for the music store because um that's our lifeblood of uh where we get our beginner equipment, where we get our repairs done. And so they're curious, and and we all know that you know, sometimes directors have loyalties to certain companies. So if it's in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, there's a multitude of companies that might call on that particular school. So just be honest as the new band director, you know, that this is the this is the people I do my business with, and I appreciate it. Y'all are welcome to come out and visit with me. And if if it's the right time, I might purchase some things. But I just want you to know my loyalties are to this specific company because that's just who I've dealt with. Um, be honest, you know, instead of just letting them call on you thinking they're gonna have your business, and then all of a sudden you go, Oh no, we're not doing our beginner drive with you this year. You know, tell them up front. Uh that's just my own person. That's not just because I'm doing this under the auspices of Tarpley music or Intune Music, or I work for Sam Gibbs music and I did business with Caldwell music. I've got a long lineage of music stores, and uh it's uh I think the best policy is just be honest with those music stores.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Well, it's uh from the music store side of it. Yeah, yeah. I I I like to know where we stand. Yeah. I I obviously think that what that that I can provide better service and or uh be the best option for you. But at the same time, you know, if if it it's happened before where you just exactly what you said, you think that you have as good a shot as anybody, only to find out six months later that they're still calling back in East Texas or wherever they came from, and you never really had a shot anyway. Let's just be honest. Yeah, yeah. Up front.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

And uh there's a there's an employee of Tarpley Music that was a roadman for a different music store, and I was doing business with Caldwell, and he came in and he just goes, uh, hey, my name's so-and-so, and I'm just gonna be calling about once a week and said, I'm a no-pressure kind of guy. If you need something, just let me know. Here's my cell number, whatever. He kept calling within a year. He was doing all my repair. So from the music store side, too, said uh, you know, even if they tell you, oh no, no, we do business with this store, it doesn't hurt to darken the door every once in a while and and talk to them at contest. And you know, it's a we're all in the business as band directors. We're in the business, we're salesmen. Band directors are salesmen, and you know, everybody's a salesman, everyone's a salesman, and uh, you know, so on both sides, just be honest with what you're doing, you know. So, hey, no pressure, whatever. So that'd be a whole cool podcast to do on the code.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Right. And I guess my point there was the honesty part of it. You have no issue at all if you're saying, well, I'm used to doing business with these other people. The next thing you're gonna hear from me is great, all I'm asking for is a chance to show up and visit, get to know you, and show you what I can do. That's that's not what I was saying. I didn't say we're gonna go, oh great, we're gonna bow out. But at the same time, it's a slap in the face to find out that all this time you thought you had a shot and they're secretly doing something else. Don't do that to people.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're exactly right. So just a word to the wise out there because uh that those music stores are they're our lifeblood, you know, for what we do is is and I think honestly that in the future, that's gonna be one of the biggest concerns in music education, is gonna be uh getting all emotional here. That's gonna be one of our biggest uh uh problems in music education is being able to get horns repaired and to be able to get proper equipment. And if we don't take care of our music stores, you know, then we're in trouble because you know, if you order all this stuff online all the time, good luck sending your trumpet to Detroit to get repaired, you know, or whatever it is. You know, just be careful with that. So that's that's my commercial, whatever music store you do business with, you know, take care of those people. I always convinced my superintendent, we'd get our bids in, and I'd say, well, this bid's just a little bit higher, but I want to go with our in town store. And he'd go, Well, it's it's not the lowest bid. I said, Yeah, but they provide folders, they have a repair shop, they're investing our programs, they show up at my big country marching festival with a repairman, and he sits in a van and they have loaner horns and they do my, you know, the list. And he goes, I had no idea. I said, I had no idea. I just thought it was like buying floor wax. I thought you just bought stuff. I said, no, no, this is a service industry. And so he would grudgingly go, yeah, let's go ahead and pay a little bit, a little bit more, you know, let's use our in-town guys and let's let's get them taken care of. Okay. So it takes a little bit of compromise on both sides. But um, you know, said make sure the next thing I would say, make sure there's a printed calendar of the previous school year that includes as much detail as possible. You know, a schedule of normal events. I put that in my notes and uh for you know, like quotes because what we consider normal might not be normal in a lot of places. Normal events and propose next year's calendar and what you propose for next year. Now they can switch it how they want to, and I say have it in a printed and a digital form. That way it's just nice to be able to see it if, you know, to kind of look at it. Because something that might be uh, I don't know, you might have like a Thursday night pep rally before the first home game, and traditionally they do a bonfire. I don't know, I'm just making up stuff, you know. But to us that would be normal because we've done that for years. To a new director, you don't want them stuck on Wednesday morning when the kids go, When do we show up for the bonfire?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Right. What bonfire? And I would almost put that in the the category of traditional things that are unique to this place. What what did this place do that you might not have done where you were before?

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yes. And uh speaking of tradition, too, when you meet with your leadership team, you know, that's one question. One of my first questions I ask them said, What are traditions that you want to keep? And they'll tell you. And so you know right away, those are kind of the sacred cows. You know, we don't, we're not gonna mess with that. The uh the senior girls get flowers at the last home game or whatever. That's a tradition they do. We're gonna keep doing that. But also it's an interesting question to go, what are some traditions that you think need to go away? Yeah. And they'll tell you, though, they'll go, well, we've always done this, but we've never understood why. This is it's kind of it's like, oh, okay. So so you guys be okay with that. Because what it does for you as a brand new director, it gives you an in to change something not really important and still be in favor with the band and still look like you're in control. Right. You know, you can change something that's you know, it's a it's it's a great moment, okay. Um, make sure you have a ledger of any accounts and a copy of this year's budget. You know, I'm I'm mine, they would always laugh at me because at the end of the year, the last job I worked at, they would bring in a forensic accountant, which a forensic accountant, their job is to catch you stealing money. You know, they bring in a forensic accountant, and I would have to go to them, and every every person did. And then they would go through all your books, then they would, if your books were fine, then they would type out a letter and they would sign it, and you'd sign it, and they'd get a copy of it. And that just says that everything is hunky-dory. You know, we're we're fine, everything's fine. Um, but they always laughed at mine because I still used a two-column ledger book.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Well, those green.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Yeah. It was, you know, you buy them at Office Max or whatever. And I and I would run hundreds of thousands of dollars of Disney trip and everything through a two-column, every page was a different, you know, budget item. And they would literally, they would go through and they'd say, Okay, this is all gonna work. They're used to people bringing in computers, they bring in their laptop and they'd check out all their quick books and stuff, and they would take pictures. I go, Do you mind if we take pictures of your ledger book? Why? Because we just think it's pretty funny that someone in this and in 2019 uses a two-column ledger book to run their end program, you know. So just make sure they have access to that. The good thing about a two-column ledger book, I mean, I guess it could burn, but it never crashes. Right. You know, so you can hand it to them and they can go, oh, this is how much you had in repair budget. This is how much you spent on music. It has month by month, you know, what checks.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

The file never corrupts.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah, the file never corrupts, you know. So but I had it also in digital, because you know, you really need to have both because you don't know what's going to happen. Right. Um, an important and all these are important. I keep saying an important one because it always seems like important to me. Because I've dealt with both sides of this issue as the new band director. You know, whether it's done wrong or whether it was done right in front of me. Leave the band hall clean and organized as best as possible with summer cleaning. You know, I've seen band halls. I had a superintendent call me that was looking for a band director, and he knew I wasn't in the market to be a band director. Uh I was already retired. He just goes, I thought it was a wise call. He goes, Can you come out here? Because we're having trouble getting a band director, and I just need to get your opinion on what's happening here. And so I go out, and Derek, all the uniforms were piled up in the middle of the band hall floor. They had not been cleaned. There were literally crickets crawling out from underneath the pile, and it smelled. And so I said, I looked at the superintendent, I go, have you ever bought a house before? He goes, Well, well, yeah. Yeah, I bought a house. And you know, there's this thing called curb appeal. You know, if you're if you're coming here to look at this job and you walk in this band hall, I would say no immediately. I might go through the process just to be courteous to you. But I'm looking at that, and that that hill of old uniforms says there was instrument parts laying everywhere, flute head joints, um, all the practice rooms just full of like uh Taco Bell cups and you know what I mean, just trash. I said, just have some custodians come in. Well, they don't know where the instrument parts go. Just put all the instrument parts that look in a box in a box and put it on a shelf and and said, that'll be good enough, you know. So that everything that's silvery, put in this box, everything that looks like wood, put in this box, everything that looks like a mouthpiece, put in this box, you know. And they did, and they found them a really good band director and almost made it to State Marching with that band because the curb appeals. So, you know, you want to leave something the way you would like to see it, okay? Um, itineraries for the usual events each year. Um, you know, what time at a home game have you had the kids call, show up to this band hall? When did they put on their uniforms? Did they eat a meal before the game? Did the boosters prepare a meal? All these tiny details that just make their life so much easier that's so easy for you to give to them. And they can change whatever they want to. But isn't it nice to know that, oh, this is their normal routine for every home football game? I like this. We're gonna stick. I might make one change, but we're gonna stick to this. That way the kids don't ask a thousand questions because you've changed everything. Okay. Right. In today's world, anything related to the show, props, a ranger, drill rider, if applicable, especially nice if services and products have already been purchased. Right. You know, if you've already got a show in the box that you've already purchased, and there's one uh job I left where the director came in, and the there's already maybe, I don't know, six thousand dollars worth of uh work done on the show as far as designing color guard uniforms, silks, uh, props, backdrops, whatever. We had not bought the stuff yet, but we'd paid designers uh money to do it. But they had a different vision for the program, and I respect that. They just kind of dumped all that. And so uh before they left, though, in the budget I already had, I went ahead and paid for all that because I think that's important. That's intellectual property. Um, and I didn't want to lay that onto the new director with them going, Oh, I didn't even buy this stuff. And why do it say why does this come out of my budget? You know, because it didn't come out of their budget. I just went to the superintendent, explained, and he said, Oh, that makes sense. You know, said I just go ahead and pay the$6,000 to these people, and boy, were they appreciative. Because you know, right, those drill designers and those color guard people and people who do the stuff for you, they get stood up quite a bit when a director leaves one school and goes to another because they've already invested so much work into it, and their time is their money. You know, they're not producing widgets, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

I'm gonna add to that too, and listen, I hope this doesn't sound too self-serving, but make sure you're clean with the music store. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for multiple reasons. I haven't even Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

And that's happened to me up in the Wichita Falls area when I took a new job. Also, I uh and uh my whole budget was like, I don't know, it's like$25,000 or something. But also I realized we owed like six thousand dollars to the local music store, and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, so that that's a pretty good chunk of my budget because the other director just kind of walked out the door. So luckily I went to my superintendent, explained the situation, and that superintendent goes, No, we'll we'll take care of that. So I just give those bills to Judy. So when he gave those bills to Judy, Judy took care of that, you know. So I said, we're gonna let you start clean. Said you can dig this so what he said, I loved it. He goes, We'll pay all this off, and you can dig your own grave, Mr. Lenny. Said you shouldn't have a grave waiting for you. So we'll allow you the courtesy of digging your own grave budget-wise. I said, Right. Thank you. I think, yeah, I think uh I don't know. Here's your shovel, you know. Um uh a list of any again, special traditions. Uh they play a certain song at kickoff, they play a certain song the beginning of fourth quarter. Um, what is it, uh Odessa Permian? Do they still play Hawaii 5-0?

SPEAKER_00 41:51

In playoffs, right? In the playoffs, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Who would have thought such a thing? You know, I think it's cool. I mean, traditions are traditions because they're traditions, but you know, as a director coming in, I'd have been like, what?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

It's like you know why they do that. It's because there's typically five steps to the state championship. Oh, see, I'd like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

I just thought maybe it was something they played when they won the state championship, and you know, that it stuck with them. But that's cool. That's really cool. I like that. You know, so some things are traditions, but you know, traditions sometimes bind us. But that's okay. You're coming in, you better stick to the uh traditions that are there, you know. And uh I wouldn't change any traditions that first year unless you had overwhelming approval by not only the kids, but the superintendent and the, you know, it's like uh I tell you what, when you talk about school songs and fight songs, um that we can talk about this quite part out loud. You know, our band hated playing our uh uh March Grandioso, but we always had to play March Grandioso as a tradition. So we slowly, with my friend Luke McMillan, who's a masterful arranger, we changed it a little tiny bit at a time over the course of six years. We changed it from six, eight time into two, four time eventually, and we changed the key and we changed the we changed everything in it, you know, the chromatic scales where they were at and everything, and no one knew any better. And we played this song called Shine Down, which was just harder than all get out. Oh my gosh. And that was our tradition to play Shine Down, and it was a wonderful piece. We we had spent so much time to work on that thing. So we did the same thing. It's kind of the Mark Twain thing about boiling a frog. You know what I mean? You know, you put a frog in the water and just gradually increase the heat. But if we'd have changed it all in one year, there would have been hell to pay, you know what I mean? But the kids didn't know any better, we just handed them new copies that had the same title on the top, and we just changed a little bit each year, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

So we talked about this before. I know we're talking about how to leave one place, but one piece of and I think you would say this and have essentially as you walk into a new place, look at that. List, read that list, figure out where this group has been, and as much as possible, don't change anything the first year.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah. Yes. It's a big ship with a small rudder.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

So you got to see how many things that you can say yes to. So that's why it's important to leave that list for the next guy. At least give him a shot to go, okay, okay, okay, this is what we do. Because how hard is it to try to figure all that on the fly? And things that don't mean anything to you mean the world to a the athletic department or even your kids. So I just think that's a great piece of advice.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Oh, it is. And uh uh another thing that another thing to add to that is the fact that believe it or not, Derek, kids will lie to you. What? I mean, I'm I'm just saying that. I don't I know I know they're all uh they're all uh of average intelligence or higher, and all their mamas are pretty and their daddies are all rich, but they will lie to you. They if you don't have a list, they'll go, oh, but Mr. Lenny, traditionally we've always done this.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Right. Or I'm not a French drummer player, I'm a drummer.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Yeah, I'm gonna have to figure this out. Yeah, I'll tell you a good story about that. I love chasing rabbits. Hayes Lowe. There's no way he'll ever hear this podcast. Hayes Lowe, he was a drummer for me, and not a percussionist, a drummer, but he was actually a trumpet player. But when I came to Electra as the band director, he was in the percussion section playing at the time quads, okay, tenor drums. I didn't know any better. No one in the band told on him. And he he the next three years he played in the as a as he graduated. He came to me and he goes, I just want you to know I was a trumpet player until you showed up and actually a trumpeter. To be a drummer. So I always wanted to play drums, so I just went back there and all the kids in the band went, okay. You know, kids will, you know, I I shouldn't say just kids. I mean, I I'll lie to you if I get something out. No, I'm kidding. I mean, if it's a harmless thing like that, that's a harmless lie, isn't it? No one's hurt by him bang playing quads, you know. Apparently he was good enough to pull it off. Yeah, and he he was really pretty good at it. I mean, I was impressed with his skill set. Um, but you know, but the kids will come to you and say, Oh, Mr. Lunny, it's it's tradition that all the seniors leave the game in the quarter uh to get their uniforms off so they can get ready for the homecoming dance at homecoming. What? And then you had pa then you call the past director and goes, Oh man, we never did that. Good lord. But they will fib to you. Lives may be a little dramatic, but they will fib to you because they want what they want, you know. So it's nice to have that list that you can go through and then have that contact info with the previous director. That way you can call and go, um, all the seniors told me they'd leave on Fridays early to go get donuts from marching band rehearsal. That's just your tradition they do before the first home game. And they're going, we've never done that. Kids are funny that way, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Uh they'll probably for being creative.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yeah, yeah. They're they're they're very, they're they're very creative. Okay. Um give grant access to any of your communication programs. Anything like Remind or in the old days of charms, whatever, whatever's the thing that's floating your boat, passwords to your uh if you've got social media pages that kids are running or bandparents are running, make sure they have access to those because the last thing you need is some band parent going rogue and start posting things on social media that all of a sudden you don't, and it's under the auspices of the current band program you're working with. Um I'm I say that because I've seen that happening. Okay. Um, and another one now, we never had uh lockers with uh locks. And I don't know why the kids would more than likely steal a bag of chips than they would a box strad trumpet, you know, in my program. Yeah, if I left uh it there's no uh there's no rules. If I if I left a bag of chips on my podium, it might disappear. I could leave a$5,000 box strad trumpet laying in the floor and it would sit there for a week and a half and no one cared about it. But you know, if you have locks on your lockers, make sure to leave a list of all the the numbers of the locks and all the combinations of the locks and a master key for the locks. Because man, it can eat up someone's week trying to figure out what everything is, you know. So just try to help them out in that regard. A master file of combinations to serial numbers, etc., if you use locks and lockers. Okay. A biggie, your transportation director. Oh well, yeah. Your transportation director will determine if you make a one-it marching contest or not. They're that important, okay? Right. So I agree. To take the, if you have the ability to do so, take them down to the bus barn. That's what I always called it, to the bus barn, and say, this is so-and-so, this this is the new band director, and this is the transportation director. Um, make sure you get them on the same page, you know, that give them a fresh start. So that way the transportation director knows when that person walks in the bus barn, that's not just someone here to sell oil or oil filters or something. You know, they're like, oh, that's that's the new band director, you know. Because uh, and I tell you what, as you come into a new gig, bribery is not, you know, beneath us. You know, uh I got a lot of stuff from my transportation department with kalachis and donuts. You know, just on a Friday morning, I just bring up like four dozen donuts and about three dozen kalachis and just, you know, they all have that table. I don't know, I've never seen a bus bar without the big table in the conference room where they all sit there and they complain about the kids while they're getting ready to get on their buses, while their buses are warming up, right? They fire up the engines and they wait. So I just come in, I just drop that stuff and just I just say hi and I leave. It's amazing when all of a sudden I need a bus driver. I had a waiting list of bus drivers, you know, said uh, we want to drive for Mr. Lenny. And it was nothing more than they knew that I took care of their meals. I took care of them. I made the kids call them by their name and said, hey, bus driver man. You know, so no, that's that's Mr. Greg. We call him Mr. Greg. That's his name. You know, so we made sure there was a sense of respect with that. Same thing with custodians that work in the band hall. We uh now granted they would clean up stuff that I didn't want them to have to clean up, but we made it a real point in our program, uh, going in and leaving, uh, you know, make sure they know the custodians, make sure the kids and you as a director know the custodians. You know their names. You call them Mr. Smith, you call them Mrs. Jones, you call them whatever their name is, and their job is not to pick up trash off the floor.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Right. They're not here to clean up after you.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Yeah, they're not to move letter jackets to the side, um, you know, they're not to get the tennis racket off the side of the band hall and whatever. Their job is simply to take care of the sanitation of the band hall, the rest of it's on us. And once you get to that level, it's so nice because they will work so hard and they'll find things to do. They'll find things to do. Um, another thing with custodians, um, in the summer, you know, because the school will generally let the band director keep the air conditioning running in a certain room to keep the instruments good. Okay. Right. I would always set up a table and I would tell all the custodians on campus, said, I just want you guys, y'all have master keys. I just want you to know that the big instrument room has two of those Sam's white tables with six-foot tables in there. Feel free to use those for lunch or break room. It was the only room besides the principal's office that had air conditioning.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

You know, the energy's not on in the rest of the building, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Yeah, the rest of them, they're just sweating like dogs, man, trying to get their job done. Bless their hearts. They were such hard workers. But it's amazing, just a little bit of respect that direction kind of helps, you know, but make sure that the new person knows who the custodians are. And if you have a bad custodian, that they know that this person is not really doing a really great job, you know, and maybe they'll respond better to the new guy, but you know, it's it's okay to say, well, they've been kind of weak on their duties, you know. You know, I walked in and they were sleeping on the choir risers.

unknown 52:07

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 52:09

You know, that's a true story, by the way. I had a custodian. I walked in at six in the morning and they were asleep because they worked the night shift and they were at literally asleep on the choirizers. And I'm like, okay, so they've just been here napping today. Okay. Right. Make sure the people who are in charge and upkeep of scheduling of the stadium or other performance or practice venues, because those people will be very important in your life, especially if you give them the proper respect. When you screw up, they'll grant you a little bit of grace. Don't be an ass. I'm the band director. This is when I practice. This will be open. Hey, we've got a practice coming up on Tuesday at six o'clock. Can I ask a favor of you? Could you have that open for us uh at time? Or if not, can could I have a key box? So I don't mind doing it myself, but I know that that's kind of a precious thing to have that key set and just kind of build that relationship with them, you know. Um, so get that taken care of. And the most important of all.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

I was waiting for it. I know where we're going.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

Oh my God. The secretaries run. They have all the power of the entire stool. They're the most powerful entity known to man in an ISD. So you'd best figure out who the secretaries are, you best figure out what their names are when it's that administrative assistant day, which we used to call Secretary's Day, but we call Administrative Assistance Day. You'd better have some chocolates or some flowers delivered to your administrative assistants that don't even work for you.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Right. You need to know their favorite coffee order.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

You better, yeah, that's right. If you know, if you know they like Diet Dr. Pepper and a big slug drink thing from whatever convenience store, every once in a while, pop in and just put it on their desk as you're going to get your mail from the deal.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Don't even have to say a word, just walk through. Because man, you are gonna screw up somewhere. You know, the payroll person, the secretary, and it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't get a check for the meals today. So if if you if you treat them with a proper amount of respect and you call and you crawl in on your hands and knees and go, I messed up. I did not get a check for today's meals. Can I have one? I know it's supposed to be a week in advance, and they'll go, All right, we'll get you a check. It's it we're all the we're all the same. Treat some with respect and they'll they'll bend over backwards to help you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

I think that's the key in everything you've been saying so far, though. You know, golden rule. Treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Yeah. Recognize everyone has value. Don't try to create a a uh class system. Everybody's valuable, everybody plays a part, and everybody will make your life easier if you'll just do simple things to respect and make their life easier.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Yeah. And we're the same way as directors. I mean, if the superintendent or principal treats me with respect and uh actually ask me things or whatever, then all of a sudden they need to have a send-off for the tennis team.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

If they ask me, if they've treated me with respect, it's it's much easier for me to go. No problem, we'll get that taken care of. Got it. If they haven't treated me with respect, it's very easy to find a reason. Oh, we can't do that. We've got all region band the next day, and we've got this going on. We're trying to fit for uniforms. Uh I'm sorry, sir. We just it just you should have told me earlier. Yeah, and that becomes a vicious cycle of negativity, doesn't it? You know, all of a sudden they think less of you and you think less of them, and you know, and so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

But you can set the table for the next guy by being respectful in this set of lists that you're creating. This is a great person in the office, they always help, they're very kind, and this is their favorite drink. This is the guy in in the uh uh that that handles all of our transportation. He's a great person. You know what? You can you can build that relationship before they ever meet him.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Yeah, yeah. And it's it's it works wonders. Uh, and with the cafeteria person, I learned this the hard way. Figure out uh what is important within their job because I had you know, the the band, we had a lunch and b lunch, okay. And I needed to get all the band by B lunch. So I just told the band and band said, everybody go to A-Lunch. I got 160 kids. Right. I paid big time for that one. You know what I mean? Because I just, in my mind, I thought it's it's like a McDonald's. I mean, you know, they just go through line. They make food. Yeah, 160 kids shift in a high school at the time of 700 kids is pretty major. You know, so all of a sudden they all suddenly running out of food in this deal, the lines didn't get cleared, there's too many kids in the lines, all of a sudden the bell's ringing, kids are still getting their lunches. And uh, I realized real quick where I'd screwed up because the cafeteria lady, not the principal, she came to my office because she figured it out pretty quick. And she let me have it, rightfully so, and I and I took it. I grew up with an Air Force Sergeant Dad. So, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. But you know what? As soon as I did my job correctly, they would do anything to help me out. It'd be like, hey, we've got to leave early for a game, and uh, I don't have anywhere for the kids to eat. Um, can the school make sack lunches and I can pay the cafeteria for the sack lunches at$4 a piece for like ham sandwiches and whatever? And they're like, Yeah, we can do that. We'll finish our lunch rush and then we'll we'll get that taken care of. So do your job correctly, you know, um before you switch something, because I I look back on that and realize I know it was stupid, but I realized how stupid it was because if someone did that to me, you know, and just said, uh, well, let's just not have rehearsal and the band kids just don't show up at rehearsal Monday night. We're we're gonna do this over in the ag department. I would be pissed. Now, if the ag teacher came to me the week before and said, Hey, we've got this really important award ceremony. Can I have the band kids in ag for that one night? And uh, you know, chances are I'd go, sure, because they fix half my stands and they build things for me. You know, it's it's you know, I kind of belaboring the point, maybe, but maybe not. Maybe not belaboring the point. You know, treat those people the way you want to be treated. I like how you said that. Okay. Uh leave your contact info with the new director so they can ask questions throughout the transition. You know, and uh sometimes that gets really old real quick because you're like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

I don't work there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

I don't work there anymore. My funniest one, just another rabbit hole. Ben E. Keith uh does food deliveries. Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

You see their trucks all over the place.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Yeah, their trucks are everywhere. Okay. They supplied our concessions. I retired seven years ago. Once a year, I still get a call from Ben E. Keith because I'm somewhere on their database and I beg them to take me off their database. They'll say, uh, Mr. Looney. Yeah, yeah. And so this is so-and-so. I'm a driver for Benny Keith and I'm delivering stuff to the concessions. Can you come open up the concessions? I retired seven years ago.

SPEAKER_00 59:19

And I'll give them I don't have that key.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

And I'll give them the number for the new band director and said, I don't have that key. So I really do wish I could help you. I'm kind of lying because I really could care less. Sure. But is it but I find that funny that you leave your contact info because it's it's gonna stick somewhere anyway, you know. So you might as well just deal with it because they're they're gonna be calling you. And uh the last thing to kind of talk about, and uh this is an interesting one to me because directors kind of fall on either side of this, then it's your job to get the hell out of the way. Don't hang around, don't engage in negative discussions with students and parents about the new director or the new way of doing things. Um it's okay to prop up the new director if they, you know. I think the best thing Lewis Thornton did for me when people would complain about he's changing this. And he would always the kids told me he said this, so it wasn't coming from here and go, Well, I was talking to Mr. Thornton, said you were changing this. It was towards the end of the year when they felt more comfortable with me. Said, we don't like it. And said Lewis Thornton always look at him and go, Well, is the band better or worse? Well, actually, it kind of worked better or it didn't get worse. I said, Well, what's your point then?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

You're gonna say, why are we griping?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Yeah, are we calling it six inches or half a foot? Yeah. So the book, you know, see he he was so uh supportive of what I was doing. And I know there was probably I guarantee there were times that there was things I was changing. He was thinking, good Lord Lane, what an idiot. You know what I mean? And there were there were mistakes made. There's mistakes made, and I'll freely admit that, but he was always supportive. You did support the new director, said if you're if you're not supporting the new director, all you're doing is hurting the program.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

So especially if you're staying in the community. Yes. It's important to support if you're if you're gonna be around where people run into you. It's my favorite thing to watch students run into their teachers at like the grocery store. You buy groceries? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

I tell you what, Derek, there's one job I I took that the assistant band director at the time thought they were supposed to be the new head band director.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

That was their anticipation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

And they really thought that's what was going to happen. And I had nothing to do with that. I just applied for the job. It showed up on the job board, so I applied for it. So they were sending emails to kids the whole year. Now, here's where the part gets really funny. Guess what the kids were doing? They were forwarding the emails to me. I collected all 246 emails in one thread, and I sent it to him on the last day of school with a colorfully worded email message.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

And I never heard from him again. You know, so uh I guess it goes to the fact that my one of my superintendents told me he said, Mike, said be careful what you say in public because they're either related or they're friends or they're enemies. Either way, they're gonna pass on what you just said.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

They're saying nobody's gonna keep it to themselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Yeah, he said, if you want to complain about the Christmas parade, do it only to your wife. Don't trust anybody. Because if you complain about it, they're gonna be at a meeting at the rotary club going, hey, I heard Lenny complaining about the Christmas parade. Really? That's that's the my favorite event of the year. Yes. Don't trust anyone to keep information like that. If you want to complain about something, call me and complain. I'll I'll put the phone on speaker and I'll watch TV and I'll let you vent.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

And you know what? I'd add a caveat to that because I think the more you complain, the smaller you become in people's eyes. Yeah. I really kind of feel that way. But if you want to complain, go complain to the person to their face. Yeah. Not to someone else.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Yeah, you're exactly right. You're exactly right. You know, if you can't be supportive, then just stay out of the picture. Or if you have a problem with something, call that person and say, I I've noticed that this is what you're doing in the band program. This is the way I did it. Um, what's the positive side of the way you're doing it? And I've always approached it that way. You know, and uh if you can find out really quick if they're receptive or not. Sometimes they're receptive.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

One of their answers might be, none of your business.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Yes, and they're correct. They're correct. And as they say that, it's like, understood. Appreciate your time. And then don't go around talking bad about them to somebody else. Okay. Right. Send it in a very colorfully worded email to them. It's just sensing a theme. There's there's a theme. Uh uh an Air Force Archives emails. There's not a whole lot of golly darns and shucks in those in that email. Golly darn, you've done hurt my feelings. Dag nabbit. Dag nabit. But no, it's it's we've kind of gone down a bad rabbit hole on that one. Um but uh as you're going through this process, leave leave something, leave a positivity, say your goodbyes, hook them up with the right people to know who to talk to, let them know the traditions, make it to where their job, if you really do care about those kids. Right. Which is where we started. How you left how you left the band hall, how you left your desk, how you left the band parents, how you left the quality of the band. That's the uh that shows whether you love the kids or not. If you leave it all a mess, you didn't care for those kids. That's all lip service. You're just talking, you know, we act in this action.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

We've had this conversation before. It's been a while. I I had this mental picture of pocket change that every good thing you do puts a little bit of change in your pocket. Yeah. And there's gonna be times that you have to, you know, I screwed up, we've both been there, so you have to give some of that pocket change away. The hope is that you always have change in your pocket to when you need it. Yeah. But I'm gonna flip it just a minute, and you know, everybody wants to leave a positive legacy. I if we don't put it that way, we still want people to have a positive uh impression or a lasting positive impression of us or remember us well. Maybe that's a good way to say it. Yeah. But every every time what you're saying is a great way to create that uh legacy or that memory to keep it intact positively. Yeah, every time you do something negative, it chips away at that legacy, and eventually there's nothing left. There's no positive memory left. There's so many negative things that people go, Well, that Derek guy, he just, you know, every time we turn around, we're finding something else. At the same time, if you do everything the right way, they just like you said uh with with some of the other situations, they go, Well, Derek was awesome. We we probably could have done this better, but he just left this thing in a great shape. It was so easy to walk into. And there's so much more positivity and so much more lasting. Uh uh, and I don't want to use the word karma. I don't know that I'm a karma guy, but you're you're paying things forward or you're you're creating a situation where nobody can sit and go, well, if it wasn't for that guy, this would be a good program.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Yeah, yeah. And it's funny you say that because I didn't I didn't think about that in terms of, you know, I mentioned Lewis Thornton a couple of times. You know, he passed away years ago. With it when he did this for me, that was a quarter century ago. And here I am on a podcast talking about what a wonderful man he was and what he treated you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

First guy to ever have a first guy to ever make a sweepstakes with the Wiley band. Think about that. He took that band and was like 40 kids and built it to 160. You know, he was the father of the band program, and he could have easily just said, I'm retiring, screw you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Rain on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

Yeah. Do what you want to do. You know, but he took the time to do that. So I haven't thought about it that way, but you're right. If you if you want to leave a legacy, be that person that you want to be, that needs to be that person. So build the legacy, right? Yeah, build the legacy, build it, man. Fun stuff. So to all those guys and gals out there looking for jobs, man, it's all over the place on my social media. It's all on my phone every day. Um, everyone's it's like music, it's we're in that wave now where it's musical chairs, you know, and there's everyone's trying to switch from this job to this job and they're trying to figure out what's better. Man, uh, it's it's tough times emotionally. It is, it's hard times emotionally. And just the you know, the financial struggle of trying to move is hard sometimes. Schools are not like corporate entities that a lot of some will pay a little bit to help you move. Most schools are like, that's your problem, you know. Right. In fact, when we got our 53-foot band trailer, we'd never had a semi-trailer in our band program. The athletic director came down, he goes, Hey, I've got a fundraiser for you. So he he was always clowning around. I said, All right, Hugh, what's going on? He goes, he goes, Man, I fire like 10 coaches a year. So that's you can move their stuff for$5,000 per person. That's a$50,000 a summer fundraiser. So and said, I I'll just I'll take a 10% cut. We never moved a fired coach, by the way. I want that to be put on record.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

But I thought, let me let me let me pull this. Listen, I don't want this to end negatively, but I do want to say something. We've talked by and large today uh about leaving a program of your own volition. I also think it's really important, even if you're in a non-renewal situation or they didn't necessarily want you to come back, and that's the reason you're moving on. Could you speak to the fact that I think it's still important to be the bigger person, the high road, if you cared about the program at all, and maybe you didn't, but I still think you do these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Yeah. As much as you can. Yeah, I agree with you. And uh, I think if nothing else, even if there's some issues within admin and you and how they felt like you did your job, whatever, if you finish strong and do everything in your power to make sure the transition works well and stay positive, maybe that's what they're gonna say in a recommendation. Maybe they will speak to that and they'll say, you know what? He had he had some issues with uh knowing exactly what to do with the band, but he was working hard to get better as a band director. We just need someone stronger in this. But you know what? That last 12 weeks, he he worked like a monster to get everything done, and everything was picture perfect as he walked out the door. Um it's it boggles my mind and kind of a different mindset. But how many directors are uh switching positions and they just quit working? Right. It's almost like senioritis done. Yeah, and it's like, how did how do they do that and get a good recommendation? Because I've heard that from headband directors saying about their assistant is moving on to another job and now they're just checked out completely. And I'm like, well, that'll be in the recommendation, won't it? You know, so if you want a person that just once they see a bright and shiny penny over the horizon that they're just gonna check out completely, you finish the job you're at. But yeah, you're right. You know, finish strong, finish strong. Even if it's and there's different levels of, let's just say there's different levels of being fired.

unknown 1:11:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

You know, there's the being fired where uh, you know, they just keep cutting your budget and your staff and messing up your scheduling because they're passive aggressive to push you out the door. That doesn't aid the school in any way. That's one way being fired. There's a growth plan. You're not working the way they need you to work, so they figure out ways to uh do a growth plan to get rid of you, to non-renew you possibly. Um, there's also just the simple fact of, you know, we don't want you here anymore. And uh, do we need to go through a growth plan or are you just gonna leave? So there's different levels of being fired from a band directory.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Reassignment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

Reassign, yeah. We're gonna reassign you to the to do elementary music, even though you've never done it in your lifetime. So you've got your job, you signed your contract. So, but no matter what happens, that little tiny amount of time seems like an eternity right now. But five years from now, that's gonna be a blip. And so be positive, finish strong, and then get in your car and beat the steering wheel and cuss to the top of your voice and scream and listen to death metal on your car stereo. You know what I mean? And uh just do your thing. And uh just as you leave your car, smile and just say, I thank you for such and such ICD for employing me for this time. It's it's been I I've enjoyed working here, etc. Fake it till you make it, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna take the liberty here real quick because I actually really believe this, that I believe it is a uh I don't know what other word to use besides a spiritual law or a uh uh I don't know what another word I could use for that is, but the way you leave one position is the way you're gonna start the next position. The way you leave one job, if it's angry, if it's bitter, if I just threw stuff down, you're going into the next job angry and bitter with a negative mindset.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

You owe it to yourself to do things the right way if for no other person but yourself. Yeah, I like this. Set yourself up for the next experience. I did everything right, I know I did everything right. I set the next guy up to be as successful as I knew how. Yeah, I left all this information that that Mike Lenny talked about. I've created contacts. There's and you know, there's always something, but there's really nothing more that, and not from a self-righteous standpoint. Well, I'm so good that I that's not what I'm saying. For my peace, for my heart condition, I am not gonna leave here purposefully creating a hard situation for the next person because I my my hope is the next position I go to, somebody didn't do that for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

And so just as a human being, I'm saying forget about what the position is, do the right thing for your peace, your heart, your mind to know that I did this right, and I'm gonna start the next thing with a fresh, clean slate, not sitting there going, yeah, I shouldn't have done that. Yeah. So yeah. Anyway, so there's my my little soapbox.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:28

So no, no, that's that's that's that's perfect. That's absolutely perfect. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:33

Yeah. And listen, we don't always we always want to be the captain of the boat, right? We always want to decide where we turn and where we go and what the next port is. And by and large, whether we realize it or not, we are. Sometimes nine months of doing a really poor job doesn't magically get rewarded with another chance. You have to put the work in. But even if you find yourself in a place where you're like, I didn't really want to leave, but I guess I'm gonna leave. Yeah, let's do it the right way. Yeah. So there's there's my list of things to take care of. Do it the right way.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:06

That's right. Do the best you can, and that will be good enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Awesome. So, all right, man. Well, I really appreciate you having the forethought to say, let's let's talk about some of this stuff out loud. Yeah. And not, you know, there's lots of things people gloss over. They don't want to imagine it or pretend that it's not ever going to happen. It happens. It's how, especially uh what you did with your life's work. I've sometimes I'm amazed that you made it through 30 plus years of, you know, you're uh take this the right way, but you're you're asking high school age kids to uh be successful for you. Yeah. And and learn all those life lessons and put up with administrators who don't understand. And there's so many external forces beyond your control as a music educator that seem to reflect solely on you or land on your shoulders. I don't know that that's necessarily true, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

Well, I know what you mean. It's beyond your control, but not beyond your influence. But you can't control it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:11

But you but you do have the opportunity to decide it's not going to change me.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:19

And that sounds pie in the sky. That sounds, you know, motivational speaker talk. But you have the opportunity to make everything as positive as possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:28

Yeah. So at least put on that front, and then you can you then call your friends and then you can vent to your friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:34

Don't vent to the or go sit in your lawn chair with a refreshing beverage and lament.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:39

And lament yes. Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:43

All right, brother. Well, thanks for this. And I I'm excited. I think we've got a guest coming up pretty quick. I look forward to uh visiting with our friend Tim Edens. I think it's going to be a great, great talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

I tell you what, he he knows a lot and he's got epic hair.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

He's well quaffed.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:03

Listeners out there that uh that only do the audio portion, this will be one you've got to tune into the YouTube because that man has hair like nobody's business, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:13

Check out my friend's hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

Hey, go look at this hair. Daryl Swergen uh over in uh West Texas, he's got the epic beard, you know. Yeah, I I can go like five days, and people go, Did you forget to shave today? Uh this is five days, man. So I'm always jealous of people with epic hair and epic beards.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

Uh well, I hope you have an epic week, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

I will. I have no choice. I must be positive.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

There you go.