Marching: Success Starts With The Fundamentals

As our friend Mike Lunney is fond of saying, "I teach fundamental skills because there are no advanced skills, just advanced situations requiring strong fundamentals." In this episode, Mike discusses the fundamentals for marching, whether it's posture, step offs, or a box drill. The proper fundamentals are the key to looking like an advanced marching ensemble!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

But you know, speaking of things that we learn and still use, Mike, I we were kind of talking before we got started here that there's things that we do in life that we do them so often that it kind of becomes an activity. And I think you even said it's almost like hypnosis that our we just do things without actually having the conscious thought of, okay, no, and and I used a really bad example, please don't listen to employers, of getting in the car in one city and then pulling up to my destination in another city and not really remembering most of the drive. The actual driving part of the drive because I was thinking about things so much, or just doing. And you know, it makes me wonder sometimes in teaching and uh teaching marching band, do we just kind of sometimes hit a uh uh I don't know, a subconscious gear where we just do because that's what we've done and that's how we do it, or at least that's how we think we should do it, and and and realistically, and that's why I'm so glad we're doing this series. Some some some pointers and some tips and some let's actually stop and evaluate what we're doing. But do you understand as a teacher? Do you remember like it's here it is May, and I don't really remember much of this year?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, maybe not that long of a stretch, but no, but I think what really kind of goes into this particular podcast is when you're teaching marching fundamentals, which you know, with the emphasis on fun and stuff, you know. So marching fundamentals. So please don't turn off the podcast just because you've heard the title now. But um, but you know, there's so many times you've done it, so it's the same basic things you're doing because it's the fundamentals. So sometimes you're like working with the band and you're kind of like a preacher that has three services, you know, and you're going, did I cover that yet?

unknown 1:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

I think I did. I think I covered that yesterday. Oh no, maybe I didn't, you know. So uh uh trying to get this all written down, I think, is is a big thing, is a big thing to have it written down where you can kind of make a checklist and kind of get your atomic habits working and uh and communicate it to the students. And if you're lucky enough to have a staff and a leadership team, you can communicate it to them properly.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

So let me ask you this, because I think the the marching world changes or has changed at least over the 30 years that I've been uh let's be honest, 30 to 40 to maybe plus years that I've been involved either as a student or uh whatever capacity. But do the fundamentals typically there's some things that you can say these don't change, these are the things that we have to nail down, we have to do this, and and I realize that you know, we don't do the same type of marching step that we used to, and I realize that there's so many more visual components going on in marching than there used to be, but there's still some fundamental things that we need to uh nail down. Yes, no?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yes, and it's uh with fundamentals, you know, over the changes. I'm going up to Hutchinson, Kansas this next week and uh kind of to help out and uh not to teach because we have an incredible educational staff. I'm just gonna haul ice and move equipment and kind of watch what they do. Um honestly that's what Val found. I'm gonna be a band parrot, you know, like a drum core parrot, you know. So I'm helping serve meals and stuff like that. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. So they don't need me to do a sectional. I mean, they've got marching techs and all they've got done. But the point I kind of want to make is that uh the fundamental that never changes is that everything has to be uniform. Everything else, uh it dawned on me last night when I was thinking about going up there because I'm having lunch with an old friend that I marched with in '82 in Guthrie, Oklahoma on the way up there, Kevin Hopkins. Shout out to Kevin Hopkins. Um, but uh, but I was thinking, oh my God, it was uh 43 years ago, you know, 44 years ago when we marched together. And that nothing we did, as far as even a horns up, how we held our body in posture, how we stepped off, how we did our backwards march, uh, none of that is the same anymore. That's all historic. You would never teach a band to do it the way we did it in 1982 because it'd be very dated and it wouldn't work really well with the choreography we're doing nowadays. So I find that really interesting. That the one fundamental that never changes is that a band must look uniform. So the goal is to have a set series of however you want to do it as a band director and uh and have this set up to where you can do your fundamentals. And the document's downloadable, it's uh kind of like Mike Lenny's marching whatever, you know, but it's a word doc. So feel free to erase everything you want to erase and plug in whatever you want to plug in, because I want this to be a living document that you can make fit your band if you so wish.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

So let me ask you this, and I'm just clarifying this. I think you've said this to us before that um there is kind of a a uh trendy way to do things, whether it's how you step off or uh to use old terms a glide step or you know, roll your foot or is there it I have never looked at one of the sheets. But as long as your band does everything they do exactly the same, I mean within reason, you can't just you know slouch around the field. But if everybody does everything exactly uniform, are you telling me that that's an acceptable? I mean, you can't count off on somebody because everybody in the band is it that way, or do you say it just has to be uniform?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I think a really good example, um, last time I saw them was uh Marcus High School. Incredible high school marching band. I mean like a BOA national finalist kind of marching band. But I noticed real quickly that when they uh do their forward march, their toe height is about one inch off the turf. So there's no flex foot, there's not pull your toes up in the air. Um, and they just do it because they move at such high velocity that they kind of almost have to do that. And when they march backwards, they actually bend their knees. So it's like Santa Clara Vanguard uh with a backwards roll step, you might say. And I bring that up because not that one way's right and one way's wrong, but like you said, Derek, it just has to look the same. So if you look at it, if I were judging that group, um, which I think I will get to judge them, I'm doing region 25 this year. So the five and six days. Um so, but you know, as long as all their feet look the same, and as long as all their hand positions look the same, and as long as their horns to the box and all their choreography looks the same, and it's very uniform and artistic and creative, then it's correct. There's no this is right and this is wrong, like in the 1960s when we had to do a column shift because we all marched the military and we had to do a segue right and a counter left. And you know, there was a checklist on the sheets. I've got old sheets, it's hilarious. You know, there's no checklist that says, you know, you must do a 90-degree slide, you must, you know, that's that's ancient history. So it just has to be the same. So that's my goal on this podcast is cool to give to give some people some ideas about that, you know, and how to kind of structure their rehearsal.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Well, get us rolling.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

All right, let's do it, man. Um, the first thing is kind of body warm-ups, you know. Um, yeah, there's all kinds of different things we can do. Uh at the simplest nature, um, with uh a lot of our bands don't have a lot of time, especially smaller bands. They don't have the luxury of that eight hours after school that uh maybe some programs have. Um so you know, just kind of stretch a little bit, legs, arms, lower body, some shallow squats. Um, I've seen bands like an easy jog to the goalpost and back just to get the blood flowing and just kind of get the rehearsal started. Um and sometimes, you know, we'd have the drum majors do a playlist and you know, play some music, kind of get the vibe going, you know. So, yeah, kind of make sure you uh censor that list. You make sure you either trust your drum majors intently or you hear the playlist before they play it because uh sure cause problems, you know, in today's world, you know, and you know, it's it's a different world. But uh get some body warm-ups. Um, a lot of bands, I know like uh Denver City, we're doing a podcast that'll be coming out sometime um with Michael Munoz with his uh resistance bands that he uses during rehearsal and during warmups. And even in the tunnel at state marching, those kids had the resistance bands on warming up in the tunnel before they came on the field at the Alamo Dome for state prelims. So, whatever it is you do with your band. And if if you have a full eight hours and you do a full PT kind of thing, calisthenics, planks, whatever, said get all that done as far as your conditioning block. Your conditioning block. So for a smaller band, the conditioning block may be five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

In a larger program, it might be 20 minutes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

But you know, you brought up Michael, and I've heard you say this before too. If time is an issue for you, um, I've heard you say just go ahead and combine your warm-ups, your your band warmups with some physical activity, whether that's just doing different moves that you have in your show, or you know, as you say, the the lunges, the stretches, the things that you do, can you combine those things together? Or are you saying at this point, if you have the opportunity, let's go ahead and do dedicated stretching and or physical warm-up?

SPEAKER_01 9:35

I would still try to combine them as much as possible. But you do have that luxury if you have more time on your hands that you can you can sit there and let them do a conditioning block and they can focus on exactly what they're doing. Um it's uh the and I've said it before, I think one of the most common deficits in uh not necessarily region marching as much as it is for area and state, is that strength of each kid, the coordination of each kid. Another way to incorporate that, and I found this works really well, there's times on the field, especially in a smaller organization where there's maybe one band director, or maybe there's two band directors, but uh, you know, there's times that one band director is working with the uh brass players, correct? They're on the field and there's something weird happening. Um, have your drum majors do some kind of conditioning exercise with the woodwinds during that moment. There's not a time that you they just should just be standing there. You know, I see so much time wasted in rehearsals that all it would take is a drum major and the kids to buy into it, go out there and do some lunges, some half and half drills, some uh balance exercises, some uh plies, some, you know, just body movement, you know, obliques, whatever it is, and just have a real set thing that's just what we do. And pretty soon the section leaders, if you're fortunate enough to have leadership in your band that's deep enough that you can have section leaders do it, they'll just jump to it. You know, my final years that uh before I retired, my section leaders would do that. If the if the trumpets were just standing there while we were working with the woodwinds over and over, then uh Will Miller, trumpet section leader, would jump out and and say, Okay, let's do half and half drills, left foot first. Here we go. One, two, ready, go. And so they would practice those things, you know. The bear tones would all kind of push-ups.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

I think some of the quiet part that that goes along with that is the more engaged you keep your students, the less time they have to think about how bored they might be. Yes. So as long as they're doing something physical or as long as they're doing something engaging, something that is benefit to the entire group, whether they realize that or not, they're not it doesn't give them idle time for their brains to go, it's hot. I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, and uh it's an old expression, but you know, if if if you don't want them rocking the boat, make them row the boat.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I hadn't heard that. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, they'll be figuring out I don't like the buses. Uh we've got the buses, aren't they? They're really hot when we they start complaining. It's like being in the army, you know. I've never was in the army, but yeah, it's always the joke that the main job of the army is to complain about the army, you know. So uh they'll just sit there and start complaining to each other, and then they're talking about who's gonna have a cherry limeade at Sonic or whatever. And right, you know, and then we get mad at them, and it's like, well, you know, you gave them 15 minutes of nothingness. So you ignored them. You ignored them, and now you're pissed off at them because they're talking to each other, you know. Said, how about have something for me? It can be super, super simple. It could just be uh march forward, eight, go backwards, eight, march forward, eight, go backwards, eight. Um, just to get that going, okay. Once you get past that, and that's actually incorporated all the way through, you know, that conditioning. Um, try to utilize that all the way through the rehearsal and the ways I notated, okay? Um, the next thing is uh real common is our position of attention, how we hold our body is our visual tone quality, because tone quality is the most important thing we do on our instruments. So the first thing we want to see whether the band is on the ramp, which you know, we as judges, we're not judging the band, right? Remember, yeah, right. We'll just leave it at that. Okay. You know, but it's almost like that impression. It's hard to shrug off that impression, you know. Um, so you know, the points of alignment, you know, the ankle, knee, hip bone, shoulder, and the bone behind the ear, make sure that's one straight line. Uh, however, your band likes to do it, or you like to do it as a director, heels together, toes apart, first position turnout is what I call it, and 90 degrees. Or are we a feet together band? And that's fine too. Okay. Knees slightly flexed, but not visibly. That way we don't pass out and we have a little bit of uh uh explosion to our step off, okay, because it's a quick twitch muscle activity. Um, stomach muscles in and line up with the five points of alignment. You lift up your rib cage. We want lots of space between our ribs, our bottom rib, and the top of our hip bone. Our arms, it's side with elbow slightly rounded without equipment, you know, because we try to do it the same with everyone's arms when we don't have horns in our hands. Then we change it when we get our horns. Chin elevated 20 degrees. And the way I like to do it, which this is highly controversial because some people say it should be uh weight should be evenly distributed across the feet, et cetera. I really like 80% of the weight on the platform of the feet. You know, we do an exercise where we lift our heels, we descend until we barely touch with our heel because I like that little natural forward lean in the band, and it makes it where when they step off, it just has that kind of uh, you know, it has a has a lift to it. But that doesn't mean that my way is right. It works, but it might not work for your band, and you might disagree, and I respect that. It's your band, it's your circus, it's your band. Okay. And then the next thing we kind of, once we get that position of attention, which by the way, one really cool way to teach these marching fundamentals, if you're lucky enough to have leadership that is uh really on top of things, is put stations. I learned this from my athletic director. The football team, I saw them working out and they had this big like horn, and they go, they'd all switch stations and they'd do some other exercise. So they'd all like a like a golf scramble. You know what I mean? Right. They all started in a place. And so if you can do that, if you got leadership, you can do it. It's a great learning tool for them because you can have leaders, a couple of leaders that their only job is to teach the position of attention. So the band gets to them uh a chunk at a time. Someone drum major blows a horn every five minutes and they go to the next station, which might be backwards marching, forward step off. It might be uh uh, you know, uh a slide or a hip shift. Uh, whatever it is, they go to that station and that's all they have to worry about. So you're not tasking your leadership to teach everything. That's that's a daunting task to give to a young person because you know it's hard enough for a band director, trust me, you know, to remember everything, you know, but give them just a little bit. Okay. The next thing would be like a horns up with and without equipment, you know. And I like to do a Met four clicks, horns up, move on five, lock on six, and then there's a dead click, and then we breathe and then we play. Some like to breathe for two beats. That's pretty cool. You know, it works really great on Fortismo sections. Um, so you can uh analyze that to your own joy and figure out where do you want them to breathe? And this sounds so OCD, but you know me, don't you, Derek? When I do my beginner brass classes, guess how we start beginner lines same way, same way. Okay. I start the metronome and it goes click, click, click, click, five, six, seven, da. And they just after a while, they just it just becomes natural. They just know where the light switch is in the dark. They just reach over and go tink, hit the light switch. And so when they're freshmen, you start the metronome and they're like, oh, we know how to do this. Because then I did the bryce sectionals for the seventh and eighth graders, and I would do it the same way in there, you know, when I did sectionals with them in uh, you know, anything you can put in the back part of your brain where it's in the medulla obligation.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

I I hesitate to say Pavlovian, but there's a comfort to knowing what's expected and and the reaction to, oh, here we go, and I know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yes, because our the front part of our brain and the midbrain can think about what we're gonna play on our horn instead of worrying about our horns up, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Because it's just it's just a habit.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

It gives you a chance to think ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah. It's it's just like we we learn how to breathe. Uh doctor slaps you on the rear end when you come out of mama and uh you you cry and you suck in air, and from that moment on, hopefully you're breathing, you know, for stays pretty consistent.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Goal.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

And so we don't sit around watching TV going, man, I need to take a breath.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Why am I dizzy?

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Because it's our it's back in the the the back part of our brain. That's how we learn everything, okay? Um, power triangle, which I like, keep the core body strength easily. You know, a lot of bands will do it where it's like one hand over the other, things of that nature. Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

I think that's we're talking in the power triangle now because uh keep I'm trying to keep up, Mike. We're talking about our horn horns up position.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yes, horns. So I like to do it where their fingertips are touching and the the palms are apart, and I like to touch the thumbs, and the thumbs are even with the nose.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

And that forces them to stabilize their core a lot more. If you put your hands and you're touching your hands, uh encompassing one hand with the other, then that gives you uh added strength in your shoulders, but you don't use your core muscle groups down your abs. So, and you can feel that if you just hold your arms down.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

That's crazy, just that small amount. If you and if you're not watching this, if you're just listening to this, basically he's describing palming one fist with the other hand.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Or, you know, like he's grabbing a fist with the other hand. That uses fewer muscles than fingertips and thumbtips.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, it pulls your the muscle groups you use are my deltoids and my lats. If I do this, it pulls down into my abs and the little tiny. Oh my gosh, those little when you use resistance bands, there's muscles I never dreamed of that all of a sudden are activated and I can't get out of bed the next morning.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah, this is really a cool concept to use. Thank you. Those resistance bands, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah, I already bought them. Yeah, I've been talking to them as I bought them. I've been using them, and man, they will kick your butt. I mean, and I I lift weights every day.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

I lift weights, I do kettlebells, and I lift weights, and I do the old resistance bands with the handles. Oh my god. You know, the this the Michael Munoz uh march to death routine, okay. So, but the kids love it in Denver City, excuse me. They love it. I mean, they know it makes them better. And there was a no doubt when they hit the field was like, something's happened to this band. This band is on the tips of their toes, and they're like, Watch us. Right. We are strong.

unknown 20:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Well, there's a confidence that comes with the strength.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Oh, yeah. There's no doubt. Yeah. It's like when you're at the gym, you get out of the way of the real heavy uh weight guy. Even within the city. There's confidence that he comes walking by, and the rest of us just go, whoa, everybody back up. Here comes Leroy. He's got more muscles in his shoulders than I do in my whole body, you know, lifting 50-pound dumbbells, you know. Um, then we start the marching sequence. We explain the use of set and the Met start and the rehearsal procedure, and it's lined out later in this same handout. So I'm not going to go through that whole portion, but set is just basically getting ready to do something. You're at uh standby or you're at at the ready, whatever you call it in your band. And that just means you're listening for instruction. Then we say the word set, set just simply means prepare to do what you've been told to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Right. It's almost like the beginning of a race. All the races get in the block, and then they go to set, and everybody lifts up and gets ready, waiting for the gun to go off. I got that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

That's a great analogy. I'm gonna steal that, yeah. So for my track students, because I I never ran track, I don't have the body for track, I'm more distance kind of guy. My feet have never been in track blocks before. I think I'd pull up the uh the the lane, you know, if I tried to go off with track blocks. Um, and then we need a field metronome.

unknown 21:48

We need a field metronome.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

You've got to have a field metronome. You're an idiot if you don't have a field metronome. Okay, that's to teach motion. Uh that's my design message. This is not optional. It is not optional if you want your band to be successful. There are clinics I've gone to, Derek, and you can believe this, I'm sure, but said, Oh, we can't use a Met because it messes us up. Well, no, you're already messed up. The Mets just calling you out.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

You know, one of my favorite things, different, different genre, but I do a lot of worship music.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

And we've moved into stuff. We've moved into a situation where everybody has an inner monitor and we use a what we call a click track. Oh, yeah. Essentially it's a metronome.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

And so so many, you would be amazed, no offense to any of my drumming brethren, how many drummers freak out and cannot play with the click track initially. It messes with because it's forcing them. And it's a good thing. It is a good thing. But initially, but it just emphasizes the need for the click track.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah. And so for marching band, that is our click track. But you're exactly right. It's like, you know, in a worship band, we would have our headphones on playing trumpet and saxophone and trombone, and we would stay with the click track, and also we weren't with the drummer. You know, it's like, well, I think we're correct over here, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

We'll let the worship leader, we just kind of try to keep our mouth shut and let them argue with the uh the drummer in the cave, too, that emotion and energy and forte and excitement and fast makes us speed up. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

And so in all honesty, if if we were going to be real super musical in how we did things, there is some give and take. If you hear a really good symphony orchestra, if you put a Met to that and listen to the recording of the Chicago Symphony, there's places it speeds up and slows down. It's very musical. We don't have that luxury in marching band. Right. We don't have that luxury in the teams. We don't. It's it just has to be on the click track. And uh yeah, we'll just leave it at that for now. Okay. Um, but one thing I want to throw out there, you know, we talked about how we do our rehearsals and stuff. I was talking to a Chris Cooper at Lagrange, my my brethren behind the pine curtain, okay, out in East Texas. You know, Lagrange of the Z Z top town. But he he's also a fan of uh atomic habits. And he did something that was really cool that we were discussing that I wanted to throw out there for directors as a kind of a tip. Um, he decided that, you know, one of the tenets of atomic habits is you just do something and kind of keep a streak. You know what I mean? If you're gonna go to the gym, how many days in a row can you go to the gym? If you want 200 grams of protein, how many days can I do that? You know, and you keep a streak. It's kind of Duolingo and uh even on social media, you know, a lot of times um Twitter, uh, you know, things like that, it'll tell you how many, how long you've been in a streak and the group you're in. Everyone has to respond, and it'll warn you, you know, and it'll say, You're about to break the streak, you must respond to something. Oh, I gotta do this or that.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

I think the new catchy word is trends. Yeah, but you're trending.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

So here's the new trend for marching band for atomic habits. His he kind of had the idea and then his uh all-state euphonium player kind of put it together, but they do an atomic habits calendar for their rehearsals.

unknown 25:15

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

So there's box, remember our boxes? Box one, two, three, four, five. Okay. Right. Yeah, yeah. Each at the end of each rehearsal, uh, Chris, Mr. Mr. Cooper will uh designate how good that rehearsal was. Was this a box five rehearsal or was this a box one rehearsal? And there's a color code for each one of those designations. So he says this is was a box three rehearsal. And so the drum major goes inside after rehearsal and they color it in orange. Orange is box three. You know, blue might be box one. I think for he said red is box five, red is their box five. And so they got to a point when they were, they went to state marching last year, and they got to a point where they had like 22 days in a row of box five rehearsals.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

And then they blew it. He said they just kind of had a real mediocre rehearsal. And he told them, said, guys, this was a box three rehearsal. And a box three is generally good enough to make a one at region. It really is.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Okay. But said, but you you broke your streak and they were all oh yeah. And he thought they were gonna be real disappointed, and they were, thought they were gonna like maybe give up a little bit. They came back roaring the next day, you know, because they they were ready to get back that streak going. And then, you know, so I I think that's a really cool hot tip to kind of give directors because I would do it in a second, I'd never heard of that before, but it it ties into my uh religion of atomic habits, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Right, and like it's just kind of an advanced form of the gold stars that we used to use back in the 70s. Yeah, yeah. But those SRA readers, the little small how listen, my wife laughs at me. I'm controlled by that little watch and the rings, the exercise rings, the activity rings, the stand-up ring. I look at it and I'm oh gosh, I've got to do something because my green ring isn't gonna get finished if I don't. That's right. Or it buzzes at me every once every hour if I'm being sedentary, it says, You need to stand up. Oh, yes, sir, Mr. Apple Watch, I'll stand up right now. I love it. But it's it's those little, it's amazing how easy it is to incentivize as long as the the added is there's buy-in, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

And so if the group buys into we need a streak or a trend of five box five rehearsals, they'll do it themselves. You don't have to plead.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah, and kind of my good friend Stephen Cox's uh uh way of doing things with no competition. The cool thing is in this atomic habits calendar, there's no rewards, right? There's no there's no pizza, there's no there's no extrinsic reward whatsoever besides the fact that how was this rehearsal? And let's mark the calendar. And I think that's really smart, you know. It's kind of cool, yeah. Yeah, so we'll just we'll kind of put that out there. And if you if you like it, use it. If you don't like it, just ignore those last three minutes, okay? So then you know, step off fundamentals. I prefer a modified straight leg. That's what I love, okay. Which is basically a straight leg is we don't bend our knee on the forward march. And a flex toe is there's a little more bend, but not really what I would call a bicycle step. You know what I mean? Because in the old days we did pageantry and whatever. Um, so to me, if there's a little bit of bend to it, but it's not real visible through the bibbers, the pants we're wearing when we march, I think that makes it the easiest on the kids, especially if you're in a smaller organization that has younger, a lot of younger kids. I mean, I've had bands of 75 where 30 were eighth graders. You know, so if you've got eighth graders out there marching, said straight leg looks really, really cool, but it might not be within our capability uh to get to that level. Okay. And then uh, you know, extension, maintain the length of the leg, move from the hip. And uh, you've got to maintain your top three points of alignment that behind your ear, your shoulders, and your hip bones. You can't let that vary in any way. And that comes back to that core muscle strength of not allowing your body to lean forward or back or sideways, that kind of stuff. Okay. And when I have them halt, uh, we call it in my situation, I call that a platform close. Uh, some call it a stab, some they have their terminology for it. But um, basically on the platform, we we come in with our toe first and then we close because the first step we take is so important because it determines three things immediately. Even the most uninformed person in the stands can tell this. They know what your style is. If you see Grambling take their first step and you see Santa Clara Vanguard take their first step, it's vastly different, but you know their style right away, don't you? Right. Besides style, it shows you distance, direction, and tempo. All four of those things are in that very first step. So you've got to make sure that works on that forward march. I like to swing the left foot out from the hip by prepping with a push with the platform of the right foot. That sounds complicated. We just push down with that knob behind your big toe that lifts your left leg just a little bit where you can pop it out in front of you without bending your knee severely. Okay. And uh don't lean into the step off. Don't allow the upper body to sway. You must control with torso muscles, all those little tiny muscle groups that stabilize your spine. And I I like to call it activate the quads, those muscles on the front of your legs. Okay. And I like it to pull up the toe. I like the toe high in the air. I know that's some bands do it, some don't. As long as it's the same, we already talked about that. But I like it with the toe up. I just think it looks more uh um, it looks stronger to me, just to me. Um, and one little tip too, we use what we call the toothpaste drill or spiking drill, where you like set your heel down and then you take four counts to lower your foot down to the platform. And then the next foot goes out and goes one, two, three, four, kind of slow motion. And it's like if they had a tube of toothpaste under their foot, they're squeezing the toothpaste out of the toothpaste tube.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

I got it. So that they get kind of analogy.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

You know, they can kind of think about I'm gonna squeeze the toothpaste out, you know, as we do it. Um kind of backwards march. I like to pull the heels up on the tay or the end of the beat before we before we move. And that's debatable too. Some people don't like to do that, okay? Um, but however you want to do it, make sure it's written down so everyone does it the same way. Um, slide the back foot without pressure on the platform of the foot. I'm not a big fan of the scraping the toes as we get march backwards because that will determine it'll make differences in our backwards march depending on the surface we're marching on. If it's worn out turf, our feet will move easier. If it's brand new turf, our feet will move slower through there. So I like to have it where we just kind of brush the turf just a little bit with our platforms. Okay. Um, and then for that backwards march, uh just kind of a one-inch rise with the heels. And there's that sweet spot. Like how far will our heels be off the ground? And so I really like to incorporate that with whatever band I'm working with, that uh they can just go up way up on their platforms, and then they can feel that they don't really control the balance of their upper body when they're almost on their tippy toes like a ballerina. Then let their heels come down, and there's that really cool moment when your heels don't touch the turf, but you can feel like you can balance your upper body.

unknown 33:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

All of a sudden you gain control of your upper body, and that's your sweet spot. And it's a little bit different for every individual. A kid who weighs 75 pounds, their sweet spot will be different than a kid that weighs 250 pounds. That's just physics, you know, there's balance issues in there. Um, but both of them can do to make it look the same. That's that's what's really cool, is it doesn't matter that one is bigger than the other, they can make it look the same. So you've got to find that spot. And once they find what I call the sweet spot, then it's kind of like hitting a baseball. You find the sweet spot on your bat. So we get that figured out, and then we just do that over and over and over. Just a couple of little tips. Don't reach back with the foot. So if I move my left foot back, I don't reach with my left foot, I push with my right platform. Then when the right foot goes back, I push with the left platform. So we're pushing like I'm uh in a boat on the dock, and I put my foot on the dock and I push the boat away from the dock. I don't pull with my leg that's in the boat, do I? I push with the leg that's on the dock. Okay. And so the same thing when we march backwards, otherwise, their knees will bend like crazy. Sure. Um then uh mark time, which I never use in a show. Now, a lot of directors do, and there's nothing wrong with that. For my band, it just always looked cluttered to me. So I just I never did it in a show, but we taught our mark time because we used it in music practice when we were in a horn arc. It just we could feel the tempo better, but I never used it on the field. I say never, that's a dangerous word, isn't it, Derek? Um, there were times when a set was having trouble forming right before a halt point. So we would do what I call cheater mark time, you know. So it's like, okay, instead of holding still for 24 counts, let's do eight counts of mark time and hold for 16. That'll give you eight counts to line this up while your feet are moving. You can scoot to the side, scoot up, scoot back. I called it cheater mark time. So um use that if you wish. Okay. Um, and then on the mark time, there's a thousand ways to do it. I just had the heel rises to the ankle of the opposite leg while the platform of the foot remains on the ground. On close, return to normal attention, foot position. Okay. Step outs. Oh yeah, step outs. Uh marking time, playing the show music. Every time there's a movement in the drill, we have the kids step out. So it's like if they're if they're supposed to be here for 16 counts, they do 16 counts of mark time, then they step out with their left foot, heel hits on count one, then they pull their foot back.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

You know, my my immediate thought here is having watched a lot of YouTube videos of like Carolina Crown as they play in their circle, you'll see them step out as it's like they're marking time, but they're actually doing the show in their head while they are playing.

unknown 36:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

When there's when they're supposed to move, they'll actually move forward a couple of steps or move back. You I think that's the concept we're describing.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah. And uh the analogy I like to give them is that you know, I think everyone, even old Mike Lenny,'s done this before. Remember that that stupid video game called Dance Dance Revolution?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I do. There's some embarrassing videos of Derek and his family's phone archives.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

It's like the I was at Kalahari with my grandsons and we played it and they had a good time laughing at grandpa. Um, but it is kind of like step outs are kind of like dance, dance revolution, isn't it? You know, we we move our foot to the left or we move this foot to the right or whatever, we do our choreography. So sometimes that kind of uh logs in with the kids, okay, for the step outs. But if you're not, if it's hard for a band to just say, do the step outs if they've never done step outs before. Pick like three places in the opener in the horn arc that just do three step outs. And that's okay. You know, just get them used to it, kind of gradually get them into it, okay? Things to watch out for on the step outs, look for the correct mark time technique so it's uniform. Um, the step out must convey the same qualities as we talked about before of uh style, direction, distance, and tempo. Um, eliminate upper body motion while doing the step out. Now the body does move forward a little bit, obviously, but we don't want the upper body to twitch or to to wiggle or do all that kind of stuff. Watch for the tendency to bend the back leg while doing a forward step out. It seems real because it just physically we kind of want to do that, but don't let them do that, okay? Keep keep working on them. Watch for the tendency to push the hips forward out of alignment on the step outs. Okay. They try to cantilever the the weight of the the horn in their upper body by moving their hips, you know. And it makes sense, you know, physically it makes sense, but uh much of what we do in marching band doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

And right, it's almost one of those things that you're fighting the you know, the body does so many things without you telling it to for balance, for you know, it's the concept of my body automatically knows how to recover balance if I let it. Yes, it's getting harder as I get old. But yeah, you you know what I'm saying, that you almost have to fight the tendency of your body to want to do things to make it easier for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yeah, because we learned it as a toddler, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

If I watch my one-year-old grandson as he pulls up on the coffee table and he tries to take a step or two, you can see his upper body moving and balancing and his feet going bigger step, and then he figures out, if I take a smaller step, I can't. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

And I think that we had this conversation when we were talking to Mike Munoz that when our kids are learning to walk, we don't spend a lot of time going, all right, now take your heel and throw that other foot. That there's so many things that their body teaches itself, and sometimes our bodies teach ourselves, and you know, it's part of the thank God that we are able to protect ourselves that way, but we almost have to physically unteach and reteach for marching. That's how much fun marching is.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

That's right. It's it's so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

If it feels natural, you shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

That's right. It's kind of like a good diet. If it tastes good, get that out of your mouth. Everything should taste like tree bark and protein. Right. So marching band is a lot like that, you know, and they get a little bit of chance to do some choreography, which I think with how we do our marching band stuff, it gives them a little bit more creative nature, which I kind of like it, you know. Right. And then we can have our forward to backward and backwards to forward, and that'll be in the handout. It's uh, you know, and I'm not gonna detail all the way through that. I'll let you figure that out as, you know, because uh I don't want to read through all that. But you know, we have to address that fundamental of how when we're marching forward in the drill, now we're gonna go backwards. How do we do that? Are we gonna do like happy feet and our feet just wiggle around a bunch and we just jump out? You know, we can't be like penguins on happy feet, you know. So we've got to figure out exactly how we're gonna do it and of course backwards to forward. And it's a very however you decide to do it, I put it in the handout. I've got my way of doing it, which I've seen it done maybe 10 or 15 different ways, as long as it's the same. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Uniform. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Yeah. And then a big one is a slide because uh I say that because backward to forward is important, no doubt. Uh forward to backward is important. Slides are extremely important for one very important reason. In a slide, you're moving where you're showing all your body posture and foot technique to the audience. Consequently, the judges, you know, when you're in a competitive situation, where front to back, you're kind of hiding a little bit of that. I mean, it's not that hidden, but it is kind of hidden. Okay. But on a slide, we've got to make sure that the the slide maneuver permits the uh the upper body to project in a direction other than the line of travel. Okay. Slides are achieved by employing two basic techniques. The upper body remains stationary in relation to the line of travel as the lower body changes direction laterally. Easy to read that and say. It's hard to do it.

unknown 41:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

And the lower body maintains its orientation while the upper body rotates in the desired direction. In either situation, divide that rotation between the hips, the shoulders, and the neck. Hips at a 45 degree angle. Okay. That's the most common thing, is the kids will try to leave their hips the same direction as their upper body, and that makes their torso really get contorted. So make sure the hips are at 45. Um, the difference in angle between the upper and lower body should not exceed 90 degrees. Okay. I can't even do that. You know, but I I had a tuba player in my band that he could literally, I mean, it was like freaky, but he he could march, turn his whole lower body and march forward going backwards. Does it make sense? Yeah. Yeah. He could do that. He was like double jointed and was like, oh my God, you know. So said did you break your spine? Are you are you an owl? Yeah, are you an owl? That's that's a good one. Yeah. So kids have different levels of flexibility. You know, some won't be able to, you know, do anything like that. You know, some can do it. The slide technique check exercise. Here's your tip. Band directors, palms together, arms extended in front of the body. Rotate the slide position and don't bend the elbows. So you put your palms together and you have your arms like almost like you're uh pointing. If I do it taller in the YouTube video, where you're pointing out like this, straight in front of you, but your elbows don't bend. Because as soon as you slide, if your upper body's not doing the right thing, one elbow or the other is going to be.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

It'll compensate, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

It'll compensate for your lower body. So that's when we do it, or I call it window panes, where we have our hands up like we just got arrested, you know. So our palms are facing straight forward. And then as you turn your lower body, work really hard to make sure that your upper body doesn't shift with it. And you can kind of see that with the hands, you know. So the that's uh that's that's a great technique. So we call it window pane, and uh, I don't even know what I call the other one. I just tell them to do it. So put your hands and fingers together, stick it in front of your body, like you're uh, you know, in the old days we'd say, like, you know, like you're shooting a firearm, and we don't say that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

We don't say that anymore. No, we don't say you're diving into a pool.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

There you go. Hey, you just give me a new trick. Yeah, like you're diving into the pool. We wouldn't dive into the pool with our hands straight out like that and just put our face smacked in the water. Hey, that's Good. That's that's good. I learned something today. And it's uh I'll probably forget it by lunch, but I learned something today. Um, hip shifts and also called a reversal, and uh just when all of a sudden we go across a certain yard line, and all of a sudden now we've got to go from forward march to backwards march at the same time we're doing a slide. Boy, does that get complicated. Okay. So, you know, just make sure to anticipate with your uh with your foot. So as you place your foot down, which uh you make sure the platform's down and kind of kick out your your uh your heel so it helps you do the reversal. And you'll figure that out real quick if you watch the kids. It'll be like, oh no, it's gonna kick out towards the front sideline on this hip reversal, you know. And so you'll figure it out. Um, a way to really great tip on working on hip shifts is just put little sections of kids in circles and have them march 16 counts in a circle one direction. I used to say clockwise and counterclockwise, but they don't even see clocks with hands anymore. Um so they're analog. Yeah, they they they have no idea what you're talking about. It's like, you know, you know, you might as well say that sounds like a broken record. They go, What? What's a record and why is it broken? You know, but you know, what does that sound like? You know, get in the line now, go to your go towards your right, now go towards your left. And they do hip shifts. And that way, if you stand in the middle or a leader stands in the middle, they can analyze and help the kids. If you got them going up and down the field doing it, you're playing this chasing game, like trying to chase a golden retriever in the park. You know what I mean? Because a band keeps moving away from you, you know. So it's uh put them in circles. That that's my that's my uh tip for that. Box drills, you know, are great because they incorporate all the techniques we use for slides, direction change, forward march, backward march, all in one tidy little exercise. It's like a Ronko, but no, there's more, you know. So what we're gonna add is more is uh start putting music with your box drills.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

So you can just I just want to make sure that I'm being clear that I I you know I I nod a lot sometimes I'm while I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you said. So when you're saying this, the direction never changes, upper body never changes, but the direction they're marching in a box drill changes. That's why they incorporate forward, reverse, slide, all the while facing the front playing. Yes, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

So from the waist up, they're a musician, from the waist down, they're marching.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

So that's the easiest way to do it. Um, other items to kind of cover or consider because I always like to mention this to band directors. You know, we we work on eight to five so much, but how much of our show is actually eight to five?

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Right. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

In the old days, 99% of our show was eight to five, or six if you're a true military marching band, and there's a lot of true military marching bands today, and they're incredible. But you know, so do uh eight to five, do 12 steps between five yards, 16 steps between five yards. You can do uh all kinds of different Michael Munoz and I were talking about this, doing W drills and different uh ways of doing box drills where it's more of an angle instead of a 90-degree, it's like a 45-degree angle forward and a 45-degree angle back. So it's uh there's all kinds of ways to incorporate those. The the hardest part, Derek, is just having time to do all this. Because while I'm saying all this, you know, it's taking us an hour to talk about the marching fundamentals. Now we've still got to play national anthem, and we've got a pepper alley feature and a drill team feature, and right we're trying to learn our music, and the kids are trying out for region jazz, and you know, do what you can. But if you've got to get these things incorporated during summer band, um, don't let them leave them until there's at least, in my opinion, at least 80% mastery. You know, is every kid gonna figure it out? No way, you know, and unless you've got a culture built up and that's unbelievable. But you know, you might get it to where it's like 98% of them can do it at the end of summer band. I'd say most bands, if you can get 80% of them do it, you it's gonna be good. It's gonna be really, really good. And one thing that happens a lot in our shows, um, we used to call it a flutter step, but the new term now is platform run. So get with get with the program. So a platform run. It was covered uh in other things, but you know, platform first. So the platform touches the ground first or the deck, um, turned out and halt in time first, so you can get the posture and the leg shape. You actually can do a platform run in time with a metronome just to work on, you know, how do we hold our upper body? How do we hold our equipment? How's our leg going to be shaped? But no defined step size, just in time. So we just kind of figure that out, and then we go faster and faster until eventually you ask them to do the small out of time steps in almost a triple subdivision. The key words to use are small and fast steps with good posture. Those are the buzzwords to keep saying over and over small steps, because they'll try to take big giant steps. Sure, they try to run fast steps, you know, and keep the upper body still and keep the uh arms and the equipment still. That that's the hard part. Um, one kind of uh really good technique to kind of as a kind of a tip, a lot of times the horn, or excuse me, the hand that's holding the horn, depending on your band, you know, that one will stay still for the most part because they're they're consumed with holding the horn. It's the other free hand that goes crazy, right? It starts wiggling around. So you can do some sort of pose where you can just bring your hand up like in a fist above your uh pec muscle, between your peck and your shoulder, and the other hand is down to the side holding the horn. Kind of has a Spartan kind of uh Roman kind of feel to it, but it keeps that keeps that hand busy. Another way I like to do it, if it's really they don't want to get the hand up against their body, the director doesn't like that. I like them just take your thumb and first finger of the free hand, pinch your tunic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pinch your bibbers, you know, and just hang on to it. You know, that's not the best solution. The best solution would be to have your hand in a proper fist and then have it where the elbow's bent, where it's like four inches away from your hip. That would be the perfect world. But how many of us have a perfect world?

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Right, but again, we're just fighting against the natural tendency of balance that your arm's doing what it does. Yeah. Because that's easier to keep balance. Yeah. But it's it doesn't look good.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

And especially if you've got something whited in one hand and no white in the other hand, right? Then it really makes your balance weird. Uh when I work out, I do this thing called a farmer's carry. Have you ever heard of a farmer's carry? I don't think I have.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Is this your kettlebell?

SPEAKER_01 51:04

No, no, this 25-pound uh uh plates.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

And I hold one on each side of the body, and I take small quick steps and I pull them away from my body, and I do that. It takes, I do basically about 10 laps on that. And man, my shoulders are screaming by the end of it. It forces you to use your arms, your biceps, your lats, all these core muscle groups. And it's such a simplistic exercise because all you gotta do is keep your nose in the air and pull your shoulders back, and then you just you walk and suffer.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

The the concept is like you're pulling a cart behind you. Is that why we're calling it a farmer's carry?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Yes, yeah. And that's why I think that's the rational. So I always think when I see kids who are having trouble holding their trumpet next to them, and then the other arm's free and they're having trouble keeping that arm where it's supposed to be. I'm thinking to myself, I do this carrying 50 pounds. I'm 63 years old, you know, so uh I'm pretty sure if you set your mind to it, you can keep your dang hand still and you can keep the horn in proper position, you know, a briefcase or a trail, whatever your terminology is for that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Um, but you know, there's a lot of info in this packet, in this podcast. It's gonna be downloadable and it's in a Word document. Um, but you know, work those fundamentals. It will soon expose the performers who are disciplined. It will cause strife because disciplined people do not like to be around undisciplined people. Thank you, Mr. Strike. And vice versa. Yeah, fight the battle, man. Fight the battle because the ones who are disciplined, they're you're they're the ones that are gonna have make the band look really, really good. And it will cause strife. The easiest thing is just to lower the bar and just go, Yeah, we wiggle a little bit and our feet aren't quite together, and we don't really all march in step. And man, we have a good time in band, and it's just good for you.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Go for it. Okay. You know, I I have no concern, I have no interest in that whatsoever. I want the band to look really good where people in the stands go, we're really proud of our band. They look sharp. Yep, they look sharp. So those fundamentals will expose the disciplined and it'll expose the undisciplined people in your band. And I've got a definition I stole from uh it was writer high school. And I'm sure I don't know where Pony Thompson got this from. Um, he's the band director up there, but they still use it. But discipline is the state of an individual's mind developed through training, which leads to self and unit pride and a willing response to authority or personal initiative whenever a lack of authority exists.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

You know, and the the kids have to memorize that. So that's their first thing as a freshman. They have to memorize that. So that's their mantra that they always go. And if you say discipline, they also and I learned this the hard way when I worked their band. If you ever say the word pride, they yell discipline at you. If you if you say discipline, they all yell pride at you. It's like, what was that? All right, we got to be real disciplined here. Pride! What just happened? And Lloyd Studier's looking at me like, no, that's just what we do. It's just doing the art. You know, pride, discipline, discipline, pride. You know, so you kind of poke the bear, but they'll all they'll repeat that verbatim in in like a very cultish manner, you know. So it's uh, but I love that. But I'm gonna say that one more time because I want this to sink in as the end of my portion of the podcast. Discipline is the state of an individual's mind developed through training, which leads to self and unit pride and a willing response to authority or personal initiative where a lack of authority exists.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

And I think the last part of that is so key. It is personal initiative where a lack of authority exists. Yeah, we can do the same things where you do the right things just because it's the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Or John Wooden says that's called character.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

I've heard it as integrity. Yeah. Doing the right thing even when nobody else is around.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

So no one's around, I'm still gonna put my horn up correctly, I'm still gonna stack my horn correctly on the sideline, my water jug, the little logos can be facing on the outside. You know, I'm gonna do everything exactly the way I'm supposed to do because I have discipline. Discipline is not me punishing a band student as a director. That's a consequence. And sometimes that's needed. And it's always it is needed, but we confuse the words discipline as thinking that discipline means punishment. It doesn't mean negative as a inner state of being.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

I'm getting rid of and listen, this is the last thing I'll say. As far as this goes, though, I don't think sometimes we realize as leaders, as educators, that when we instill the discipline or when we in introduce discipline, there are times, whether it's in the tunnel or before you go out and perform for the first time, that the comfort that comes from the discipline that you've been practicing. Yes, because you you default to it because it's you know it's the right thing and you know how to do it, and it's a comfortable place, even though you don't know how it's gonna turn out in the end, it gives you the opportunity to say, Oh, you we automatically resort to comfort or to the most comfortable thing under stress. And if you discipline yourself to do the right things, that's your comfort spot. That's my did I say that right, Mike? Did that make sense to you? And and I think it's important because if our comfortable place is doing the right fundamentals, then we're ahead. So what a great topic, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

Um I know marching fundamentals are the most exciting topic we can imagine. I mean, but but you know, tomorrow we're gonna talk about scales. No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

But I would argue it's the difference between being good and being bad. When you know why, and the kids know why you're working the fundamentals so much, it's not a bad topic. Yeah. And they buy it.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Yes. And I'll I'll throw this in there. Even the most unmusical kid that has problems playing their horn can do the marching fundamentals. Well, that's what I'm trying to say. There's a simplicity to it that it's like it's black and white. This is what we do. There's nothing creative here. We do exactly as we're supposed to do. And so it's really comfortable as a yeah, I love it because it's uh like you said earlier, it makes me feel comfortable as a teacher to know that I know exactly what I want. I know exactly what I'm gonna say, I know exactly what to look for, and I don't have to worry about is this crescendo too much? Is this crescendo too little? Is uh is this the right tonal quality I want? Is this the ethereal feel and the woodwind feature I want? No, the foot hits, the heel hits on count one. Go.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

There's a certain comfort in that that makes my OCD self.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

I just think that not everybody makes every uh it's the goal, but you're never gonna have a hundred percent of the people that make the best tone production in the world. But everybody can do fundamentally what they need to do on the field. Yes. So ta duh. Marching fundamentals.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

That's right. The emphasis on fun, not on duh. Duh. Fun duh mentals. All right, brother. Have a great week out in the trenches. I will, I will. See you later, man.