Ask Mike Roundtable: Your Program and Your Music Store

In this episode, Mike Lunney welcomes friends Jim Bode, Tommy Perkins, and Tarpley Music's General Manager Wes Sutton. Enjoy this discussion about how to make your program successful through mentorship, peer support, and the support of a strong local music store and the Ed Rep that helps take care of your program. Some great advice and wisdom from a group of folks who have been there and done that!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

All right, we're gonna do ourselves up another Ask Mike podcast. And uh welcome to our podcast. My name is Mike Lenny, and uh generally I'm the one who's being asked all these questions, but today I've got this crew of individuals with me that I'm gonna be asking some questions and they're gonna be telling us some things. I've known all these gentlemen long enough that we have stories that will not be aired on this podcast. And we probably have records in sheriff's offices across parts of Texas. Um, but I'm gonna start with Mr. Wes Sutton on the end. And Wes, tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we'll go to Mr. Perkins and Mr. Bode.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Well, I'm uh GM for Tarpley Music Company. I've been with the company for uh 20 years now. Uh with uh King Music prior to this, uh, with an ed rep. Uh that's how I met most of these guys uh originally. Uh did that for about 15 years and kind of went through the chains of uh the music industry. And and here I am today uh with these fine guys and going to answer a few of Mike's questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Mr. Perkins. I'm Tommy Perkins. I'm the band director at Bangs High School. This is year number 31 is starting all this, and known these guys forever. You know, they're days that I think Wes and I are kind of related, you know. You do look a lot like that. Yeah, yeah. We spend a lot of time together, and I pick up some of his terminology to get to me in trouble sometimes. Mr. Bodie?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Oh, it's my turn. Okay, well, if we have to go there. Now, my name's Jim Bodie. I'm a retired director since 16 years ago or something like that. I live in San Angelo and Mason County and a few other places, I'm pretty sure. But anyhow, I work with a lot of these guys, have worked with, like I say, Wes and I met when I was at Eriean County, I think. Yes, sir. You know, that's where I met him and Tommy, somewhere way back there when he was with Mike Brady. And you, who knows where I met you. I'm not sure I remembered that.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

But anyhow, you were traumatized at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Not a bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Anyhow. So, what I mean, what else you want to know about? Yeah, I'll tell you what, I these guys have done a great job in all the respective fields. Um, our goal today is to kind of have a podcast based on uh I guess the best way to say it is the our band director community, how we uh operate and communicate with other directors in our field and operate and communicate with the people that are in the music industry that uh are very influential in what we're doing on a day-to-day basis. And things have changed over the years. You know, we've gone through social media, the these guys are all of age, and I might be the oldest one here. I don't know. I think Bodie's probably 10 years ago. Okay. Yeah. But you do act immature. Well, yes. It's called the second childhood. But but no, we kind of came in an age where I remember doing uh, you know, entries on an IBM Selectric typewriter, and I remember seeing my first Apple IIe computer on my desk, and we were so excited with this new technology. And now it's so much easier in a way to communicate on social media and uh to find videos and things of that nature than it is to communicate with actual people face to face. So we thought we'd talk about some things that we do within our programs. Um I want to start with uh Wes because you know you'd think from the outside looking in that uh we don't have opposite goals by any means, but you wouldn't think that the music, local music store uh that services your uh band program would have different goals, would have you would have different goals than what you have as a band director. But Wes, would you kind of speak to that a little bit for us?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Well, first off, um from the music industry side of it, um, you know, we're all in this to make better musicians start off with. Yeah. And uh from our side standpoint, way way we see ourselves as a music store or music company or as uh as a head rep back when I was doing that particular job was I'm an extension of your program. So it takes our instruments uh for your program to go, but I'm also a connection between all the band halls. So I know I've got a I'm connected to a lot of people, a lot of resources. Uh, you know, we were talking earlier about kind of like the job board, you know. I'm also connected to a lot of superintendents across the state. So uh because we visit those people in the business offices where a lot of people don't. Uh so we if you use those resources for the way that we do business, uh we're a great resource for you. Don't look at it at the music store as that's just the guy that sells me instruments. That can be the guy that's gonna uh talk go be the liaison for that business deal that you need to get done at your school. Uh we deal with business people all the time. So uh going to the a school board meeting to represent uh bid for you is not a problem. That's stuff that we do. And uh, but we look at us as an extension to your program to help your program grow and be successful because in the end game, we want to get these students uh at a higher level of education and playing music so music lasts for the rest of our lives because everybody's connected to music somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, great points, great points. And yeah, we want to make sure that uh, you know, those kids grow up to be adults and parents that have kids that are also in band. And we want this thing to keep cycling over as we go through it. So, Tommy, I guarantee you you got some things you can tell us about this. Um back when you first started teaching, what were some common ways that you met up with directors or exchanged ideas how to teach? You know, we didn't quite just get on a computer and kind of look for things.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Well when I started, there was no internet back then. There's still none banks. Yeah, yeah. At least not in my office. Okay. You learned everything word of mouth. Used to come down back then, it was call or music. You come down here and there'd be directors down here that retired, you know. I don't know how many times I heard Bill Woods say, Mr. Perkins, do we need to have a conversation about the clarinet again? You know, you learn a lot down here. This is where you found out about what job was open. And at one time, even the music store here, we used to have music in the store. Yeah, you could buy music store. You could buy music in the music store and you could come and look and see what you needed. Sold ensemble, music, concert, site, reading music. And somebody in the music store would tell you, yeah, that's a good piece to play. Uh, you may not want to play that one. And you know, a lot of information was given at the music store. And down at the convention, we'd sit at the snack bar. And if you were a young director, your job was just to keep your mouth shut and you just sit there and listen, and they would talk for two, three hours, but you would leave with so much information, you know, and the phone. And this, well, cell phones still weren't a big thing then. We just called each other on the office phone. But if you wanted to know how to play something or how the articulation goes and misprints back then, remember some of those tunes had misprints in that the only way you knew about them is if an older director told you. Right. Remember Moda Song and Dance? Yeah, it had misprints in it. And if you didn't know an older director or someone didn't tell you, everything was word of mouth back then.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

And a lot of those misprints actually fit the music. But the judge has a score, so I just can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Yeah, but yeah, that's that's an excellent point. Yeah, because uh, you know, those misprints lived forever because they printed the music off of brass plates. You know what I mean? So they couldn't just go on the computer and change that to an F sharp, you know, kind of thing. Um but yeah, there's a a lot of things that go into this. It's it's hard to, I think, you know, in today's society to uh to have more communication face to face because and we've done this to ourselves, so I'm not blaming anybody, but we've made it busier. You know, you've got WGI, you've got indoor wins, you've got DCI, you've got, you know, Jazz Band competition competition, Mariachi, you've got all this, you know. It's uh so it does make it harder, and it doesn't mean that you have to give up any of the social media because I think it's a great resource. But you need to find some time somewhere along the way to kind of meet someone face to face. If it's an older director that you can get some ideas from, that's perfectly fine. But there's certainly nothing wrong with a whole table full of young directors that have taught for one year or two years exchanging ideas on that. Some things that we do that we still do to this day, because uh Mr. Jim Bode he he loves doing this, is uh he has a uh we'll just call it a social gathering. Uh but he's gonna tell us a little bit about this social gathering.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Well, uh, you know, here you go. You know, now get your edit ready.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Remember, there's gonna be uh attorneys viewing this. Yeah, I know that. Okay, sorry, just be careful. My name's Mike Lenny, I'm from Havelink Attention.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

No, uh you know what these two guys said already uh is something we've been discussing all morning and all at you know, through lunch and everything, is the fact that, you know, and I'm not gonna say young directors, new directors. Yeah. Or inexperienced directors are kind of shy about approaching somebody they don't know that may have more experience. Or somebody, say, from the music industry that they don't really know what they do, so that they're not gonna ask them. Man, that's a good point. And the number one thing, and I always tell the people this that I work with or work, you know, help their bands or whatever if you're a new director or any kind of director, period. You need to find somebody. Don't be afraid to ask somebody a question. You know, it's it's so important. We all started the same way. I mean, I was a little shy about asking somebody when I first started teaching, and then of course I met up with a guy that taught me a whole lot, Jim Childers, that you know, kind of just put it in my face, said you will ask this guy that, you will ask this.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

But the there wasn't a whole lot of negotiation.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

No, the point is get on the phone, go to somebody, some you know, can I come watch a rehearsal? Yeah. You know, can I come in the store and talk to talk to your manager? Tell me how you how you guys work. Because I'm new at this, you know, something like that. Can I go watch Perkins? Can I come watch your band? You know, you got your student teacher out here in the hallway. She's gonna do that very thing. Watch your band. Can I go watch you do another band? You know, there are no dumb questions from a new teacher. Let's put it that way. Don't be afraid to come up to Mr. Lunny and say, Hey, can you help me? Can I ask you something and you give me some answers? You know, that's the whole point of this conversation. But yeah, okay, now I told you I was gonna get off script. But can I throw in one thing before you get to the stuff?

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Just don't hit me with it. I won't hit you with it, okay. Um, the idea of asking someone else for advice, it's actually kind of flattering. Oh, well, yeah. You you think you're like imposing upon them, but there's something and I this sounds real self-centered in a way, but it is kind of flattering when someone says, Hey, how does your band make that happen? So, but I just want to throw that in there.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Well, and you'll find out, you know, that you just got me off track again.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Okay, well, you got an edit button. But we can cut you out later.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

You'll find out that the most famous band directors out there who've got it. Everybody in the world knows who they are. You know, whether it's a Ralph Zemmerup, it may be a Harris Brinson, it may be a Francis Macbeth. They love it when somebody asks the questions. Yeah, even if it's somebody who's just starting at some school somewhere and never taught anywhere, these big guys love it. They would love to help you. There are no egos because if they had an ego, they wouldn't be that well that that well versed in their profession.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah, and it is shocking. You could call you know Jerry Junk at the end and leave a message. And Jerry Junk. He he won't get back to you within 30 minutes. He's a busy man, but he will get back to you. You know, it's he it's amazing. So don't think that you're unimportant. Exactly. The people will not respond to it. Don't be shy.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

But anyhow, getting back to the point the thing, okay, the farm. That's what we call it. That's what we call it. We own the farm, yeah. Well, or the ranch, what are you gonna call it? That's where I'm gonna retire to to go with it. Exactly. But uh years and years ago, uh great director Butch Credgington was retiring from Brady, and so we decided to decide, Butch, you want to have a retirement party, which of course that's just an excuse for a party. So we met in my front yard down there, and kind of an all-star cast. We had Wendell Gideon, James Mallow. Some of you guys, the old folks can remember, these are legends. You know, Jim Childers, Ralph Zamaripa, Forster Halimacek, and just the list went on and on, and then a few young folks. Brian Owen, all these guys. Well, what happens if one of these things? They're starting to ask each other questions about the profession. Yeah, shop talk kicks in. Yes, you got to be hall of famer six months. Exactly. So we we've kept that going. We do about four or five a year, and the young ones have learned, and I don't say just young ones, because there's some older ones there who are very successful, but they're still gonna pick somebody like Mike's brain or Barry Earn or somebody who comes to these things, they're gonna pick the brain. You know, so it's extremely important to come get with those folks, learn those folks, learn to come up to them and ask him, Mike, my band's doing this. What would I do? What would you do if I was doing this? Yeah, yeah. We created listening sessions about 18 years ago for the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He created and I stole it. I stole it. Well, you stole it. That's all right. My lawyers will be in touch. But anyhow, but yeah, but this whole thing, and you know, okay, I'm a teacher and everything, I'm a band director. Here comes Wes, and I'm learning real fast. Oh, this guy can help me in a lot of ways. Not necessarily, okay, how to play in tune or something like that. Although there's a lot of guys that work with you guys that are musicians and everything, they they may throw something in from a different direction. Whoa, that actually works with the band. So we learned like that. But one of the best connections in the world is your music store guy. Because they're everywhere, they know what's going on. I know about Wes, he's helped people get jobs, he's helped superintendents find good band directors. That's there's a that's the that's the community we're talking about, the comet, you know, comment uh communication we're talking about. Yeah. You know, it's it's it's huge. And it's very, it's very helpful. And again, like I say, the very, you know, Mike, you're more famous than I am, but uh I'm I've got other fans. But you know, you look to a Jerry Juncans or a mer uh Jim Childers or even Francis Macbeth. I mean, I was fortunate enough that he came and hung out in the Fredericksburg band hall because Jim Childers, the guy that taught me, was kind of his protege. So he'd just come down and sit every two years, every convention, he'd hang out, him and his wife had hang out in Fredericksburg. But we learned so much, and he was so willing to tell us how to do things or how he did things. Yes. And I tell you what, valuable.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

You're exactly right. And with Wes, with uh something you can uh utilize the services of your music store is how to communicate with your uh your school boards and how to communicate properly with your admin and your special ex superintendents because they deal with those folks a lot, you know, and so that's a very intimidating thing. I don't care how young or old you are. That's intimidating to see all these people that they're the ones that sign your check.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

And think about this. I'm gonna interrupt a little bit, but somebody like Wes, because he's done, I mean, he's the you're the president of the school board out at where you are, right? Yes, sir. Uh people like that can also tell you how to communicate with administrators, community members, parents, school boards, because they're on the other side of it. You know. The greatest the greatest trick of all is okay, you're a band director and you need something for your administration. The oldest trick in the world is if you're good at it, you make it make them think it's their idea. Yes. That's exactly right. But we were talking guys like you know, if you're talking to somebody in a different industry, okay, music, well, they're on the other side of this. They are parents. Yeah, they are school board members, they are administrators or whatever. They can kind of help you learn how to talk to some people. A lot of us don't know how to do that. There's a lot of band directors that do not know how to talk successfully to the community.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

And and to add to that, uh, and you are correct, a lot of people don't know how to do that. They feel intimidated to go uh representing the colour. It's a different school board. It is, and it is for the school board as well. If they don't know what your needs are and they don't hear what your needs are and why, they don't understand it no more than you do. So they need to hear it from you to vote with uh uh educated mind uh so they know what they're voting for. So uh Scooter Miller was a gentleman um that I learned this from. He's one of my band directors I called on. Uh he went to every school board meeting. And uh and I asked him, I said, why do you go to all the meetings? He said, first off, it's harder for them to say no if I'm in the room. So, but I'm there to explain what I need and what my program needs. And uh I'll I'll just tell y'all, coaches do this better than we do. They do.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

They they do a lot of things better than us.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

We don't want to admit they'll go to their administrators and they'll ask for what they need. Uh and they'll go to that board and press for what they need. They do this better than than we do. Um, so that's something that uh I feel like we can all help each other with. You know, if uh anybody listen to this podcast cast, uh if if you got a question about that, you you want to know some ins and ins and outs to getting to the school board and uh how to talk to them, how to communicate with them, please reach out to me because uh I think that's a very important tool, and I think it's something that all educators should be doing. Yeah, is it real easy to gripe about what the school board has done? But if you're not there and you don't know exactly what they did, is it it's hearsay? It's your fault.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah, it's all hearsay.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Well, the main thing, of course, we're talking about face-to-face communication here. Yes. Telephone, okay, but text and email, okay, that's real nice, but that really doesn't tell anybody anything. You know, if you want to talk to somebody and see if they trust you or if you want you need to be face-to-face with them. And that there's that's all honesty there. And I'm not gonna say the word I used a while ago. Yeah, you know, but it's all honesty. That's that's the way you really communicate. And a lot of us, and I've done this when I was younger, although I didn't have, I mean, I'm I'm before your Commodore, by the way. Computer. But anyhow, it took a while for some of us young ones to either get the brave, you know, get the courage or whatever, just get the incentive to, okay, I really need to go do this. I need to go meet these people. Now, we couldn't email back then or we couldn't text because they didn't exist. I'm not that old, but I'm pretty old. But anyhow, so uh this face-to-face thing is huge. And again, you talk to somebody, they help you, and all of a sudden you're learning more about how to communicate. If I'm talking to Macbeth or I'm talking to Zevarep or somebody like that about band, I'm learning more how to communicate, not just with a band, with anybody. So we have to do a lot of that, and you need to get out and do it again face to face. I mean, text them courtesy, say, hey, what's a good time for me to call you, or something like that. That's okay, but do don't do everything by text and email. Good lord.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

And if you talk to the road guys, like for instance, anyone that has dealt with Wes back when Wes was a road guy. Um if you're gonna go talk to your board or talk to your administrator, the road guy can help you to talk to them where they understand what you're talking about. Because when music people get together, we use musical terms and big words, and administrators are gonna turn that off like that. Real simple. But Wes, when he comes in, if he's gonna sell you a trombone, he's not gonna give you a history on the trombone for the you know, where it was invented and it's been around, blah. He's just gonna tell you this is a good trombone, this is this works, it's not much it works. And same when we go to speak to the sport or we want to ask for something or whatever, just plain speech will get you across. Not how impressive I am. Look, I have a college degree, have a master's degree. And for God's sake, don't make the mistake I made. Jim Childers had to fix this one on me. I didn't really want to ask for help because I was embarrassed. I didn't want him to come out and think, boy, you're stupid. You don't know what you're doing. He was coming to clinic by band on Saturday, and I started calling Monday, making excuses. Well, I don't know if you should come this week. It may rain. You know, I call him Tuesday. Well, you may not want to come. Uh, we have a late night game. Any excuse I could come up with, finally he called me and he said, Look, I don't care what excuse you make, I'm still coming. I was terrified because I just knew he was gonna leave there thinking I was an idiot. And that's I think why a lot of people you don't want to say it face to face. Right. You know, I don't want to ask Mr. Linny how do I do this because he's gonna look at me like, son, are you stupid? And but I'm one of these people. I've done it for 31 years, and at lunch, I'm in there as saying, okay, now you do marching this way and you do this this way. When we're out at the farm, I'm one of those people asking questions. And this is year number 31, and I'm still asking questions. And I don't care if you've been doing it 50 years or you've been doing it for a year, or you're a college student. If you saw something, hey, I was at a clinic and I saw Mr. Bodie teach the percussion how to do this. Well, I want to know. Tell me. My ego's not big. Of course, mine was humbled when I first started teaching when I had Kelly Glaze come and clinic my band, and he said, You just start them, and as soon as I hear something, I'll tell you to stop. I played one note and he stopped my. So don't be afraid to ask for help. They're not going to laugh at you. Well, they'll laugh at you, but they won't think you're stupid.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah, and sometimes I think the syndrome is uh the old uh I'm too sick to go see the doctor. Yes. You know, it's like I'm gonna wait till I'm healthy. And once I'm healthy, then it's okay. I want the doctor to see me after I lose 40 pounds and my blood pressure's under control, then I'll go see the doctor. Um, so we've got to kind of keep keep that in check. But I really think uh just a sign of how we do things nowadays, that uh communication is a skill, just like learning how to play your instrument was a skill. Um, so if you feel uncomfortable, which is normal, especially the more inexperienced you are as a band director, the less you actually generally are sure about communication, you know, because we didn't have any choice, you know. It's like there's no other way to communicate other than to find someone else and talk to them face to face and ask questions. And so we didn't have any choice. So we kind of acquired those skills because there was no other way to do it. But so find one person to that you can kind of attach to in that way that you feel comfortable with and then kind of expand it from there. One idea I've seen, I know I've several groups that do this, and I think this is so cool. I'm not a video game person at all, but a lot of folks do uh video games very interactive where they use the the headphones and the mics and they can talk while they do like Call of Duty or whatever. And so, but it'll be band director groups, it'll be like band directors in their late 20s, early 30s, and they do shop talk while they're playing their video game. You know, said, Hey, you know, how are you dealing with that with this this person who is an alternate now in your band and their parents are upset and oh yeah, pick up that M16 and we're in Call of Duty. Okay, yeah, all right, yeah. Now with that alternate, yeah. So it's really interesting. So it does it, it's better to be face to face. I agree a hundred percent with Jim Bode on that. Um, but if you know, try start to develop those skills in that way. You can do there, you can find a way to do it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

One other thing to look for on that too, and this is something I learned a long time ago about my mistakes, and then when I started doing a lot of clinics and things like that, I'd watch other people do this. Listen to how when you talk to somebody, and we're talking about communication. Well, how do they speak to a certain type of person? How do they speak to an administrator? Another thing is how do you speak to students? A lot of band directors who are having a hard time with their quality. Okay, they can't get that one. Sometimes they can't get that two. If you talk to somebody like Mike or Tommy or somebody like this, listen to how they speak, listen to how they describe something, watch how they teach their band. That's an important word. Because one of my biggest successes on say cross-tuning, cross-listening across a band is talking to those kids like the rednecks because they are, bless their little hearts. You know, my best way to balance a band, one of the best ways is okay, have you ever heard, you know, it's it's the the listening thing. How many of y'all have ever been out there and your dad pointed out a deer and you couldn't see it? Well, the deer was camouflaged. All right? And after a while you could see that deer every time, couldn't you? Guess what? Okay, trumpet player, you can't hear that French horn player. So we'd do something, we'd isolate the French horn, and now the kids, you've talked to them in their own uh dialect. I haven't said a thing up that I learned in music school. So I'm I'm going sideways with my conversation here. But the idea is there's different ways of talking to kids that are in your band. They haven't been through what we've been through. All right? If I talk to a successful director here and watch to them watch them teach, they're not using musical terms, they're using terms that these kids can understand. We can over talk over talk our band real easy, and that's where a lot of very good musicians can't succeed in the band directing. They don't know how to communicate to them. But if I talk to somebody like this or like this or like this that's been there, I start realizing this guy's speaking to his band in a different way that these kids that are unexperienced, they understand what he wants them to do, so they do it. Yeah. We don't use big words, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

No doubt. And I think a really good test to that is uh, you know, if you get a chance, which try to make a chance to do this, to go watch a successful band director. Absolutely. Bring bring just like a little stopwatch with you and figure out how much time are they actually talking during the rehearsal.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

There's another one.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

And uh the most successful directors have the least amount of talk, which is easy for us to say here is we're in a podcast where all we do is talk.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

You know, we choose to stop talking in here, but we can get away with it. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah, so we can get away with it. We've got free license you know to talk in a podcast. But I've found that the you know, if you go watch Andy Seeley with the Hebron Band, you know, he'll have a two-hour rehearsal and it'll be about you know 10 minutes of actual him talking in a two-hour rehearsal. It'll be like, let's do that again. Yep, let's do that again. That needs to be more articulate.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Do that again, please. But that's what we find out from talking to experienced directors, yes, or experienced in whatever field we're thinking about. How do they just discuss things? How do they describe something to the kids? How do they just describe something to their school board? You know. So that's again, that's the important thing. And we call keep coming back to the same thing. If you're new at this, if you're old at this, the best, greatest band directors in the world followed somebody around like a lost puppy when they started out. And some of them still do. Fabulous bands are saying, Hey, Mr. Lenny, will you come hear my band? And this is like the 6A otter band that wins it every year, or something like that. Would you come hear my band? Let me know what you think. It's a different set of ears. So you learn how to do that, but again, find somebody. Do not hide in your shell. Yes, that's the number one. Just don't find your shell.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah, it's about the tone of a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Yeah, yeah. Be brave, find somebody.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

And it is hard to communicate because our field's so much different than other fields. Because if you critique my band, that's my baby and my personality. But if I was an accountant, you could probably critique my spreadsheet and I wouldn't take as much offense to it. It'd be like, yeah, I would still be offended, maybe. I don't know, if I thought you were incorrect, but it'd be like, well, that's my spreadsheet, you know, or if I fixed a diesel engine, well, I you did that wrong. Well, show me how I'm supposed to do it. But there's something about all of us have come from a background where we actually play musical instruments. Oh, well, unless you're a percussionist. Sorry, I had to give Jim Bodie that stab. Sorry, Jim. Percussioner musicians, too. Please please don't fill up my box with uh nasty emails about percussionists.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

At two o'clock in the morning, there's gonna be a snare drum solo on your porch.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

There will be. That's where I will be. But you know, but that's part of our life. You know, when we go do a recital, that we're it's vulnerable. You know what I mean? We're up there doing our thing. So it's the same with our bands. And that's to me, that's the hardest hurdle in communication to get over, is the fact that it's it's part of our heart, part of our soul. It's not just this is my diesel engine that's knocking, how do I fix this? You know, kind of thing. But you've got to get through that. You've got to tell yourself that I know this is part of me, this is my baby, but I've if I want it to get better, I've got to have people tell me what to do. And I love what you said about speaking to different clientele, because you're exactly right. If you watch Me Clinic, uh a band that maybe a 1A band that's a very rural uh farming community, it'll be a different approach than it would be if I was doing the uh top wind ensemble at uh Odessa High School. Exactly. You know what I mean? It's just it's just a different approach. It's it and it's not that one kid's better than the other by any means. They just live in a different world. You know, so you have to approach people in what world they're in. Same way in music stores. You know, to me, I did my college time uh working in a music store and I enjoyed it, and I spent a lot of time in music stores, but you approach that person you're selling to or providing a service to with some context of what world they come from. You know what I mean? You you you figure out real quick are you orchestra, band, you are you a vocalist, are you a sound tech guy? Are you you you real quickly figure out what it is? And if it's not within your ability level, like for me, technology and sound is far out of my technique, my level. But you find someone who can. You you go to the other guy and go, hey Wes, get that guy over here that does all the tech stuff, you know, because I I can tell him about a flute or a clarinet, but I can't tell them about gain on a mixing board to save my life.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

You might not even approach them from a band standpoint. If you're going into a Travis Hobson's band hall, you're gonna approach him from a hunting standpoint, and then we'll talk about band later. Yeah, you know, and that's part of having a conversation with a person and getting to know that person. I like that you you know more about the person that you're dealing with, you know. So that's that's a little deeper. Uh you'll get around to that conversation that you really want to talk about, yeah, but you you you know the person, and that's where that I think that face-to-face is so valuable. Uh I was pre uh iPhone when I was on the road, so messaging wasn't a deal. So when I when I pulled up to a band hall, the band director was excited to see me because I was a social media today pulling up to his band hall. I had all the news that I was bringing to town. And plus, I was the first person that they hadn't seen his own. First to talk to, and the outside guy that I'm I'm somebody they can talk to. That's right. That they haven't seen all week, you know. So it was it was good times, but you know, today with uh the text messages, the emails, you got Team calls, you got, you know, Zoom, you name it. There's tons of communication tools. Uh that in-person uh well, one thing, when you're doing a text message, you cannot hear the tone of the conversation. Exactly. And uh Mike likes this one, but if there's anybody that should understand tone, is band directors. Yeah, yeah. So uh, you know, you might uh I'll give an example. I had a band director way back when he texted me a message and he left a it was either a comma or a period, I can't remember, but he left it out of the sentence. It sounded totally different. And I called him up, I was mad, you know. I was like, hey, what in the heck are you thinking about? You know, and when I finally got to his band hall and I pulled up and he's like, Man, what I'm not sure why you're mad at me. And he got to reading the text message, and he goes, Oh, he said, Yeah, I'm stupid. I I should have put a period right in. I said, Well, it sounds totally different without that period, don't it? He said, Yeah. So, you know, that in-person conversation just makes a difference because you can hear the tone. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

And you know, again, of course, we're uh we seem to be on communication here for most of this thing, but that's you might want to be a good one. That's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Yeah, that's what it is. Communication between band directors and you know, we're talking against uh face-to-face and everything.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

You know, you can compose a text, you can compose an email, but you're not gonna compose when you're talking to somebody. You know, you're not preparing anything, it's coming straight from the brain to your mouth out, sometimes not in that order. But uh that's the thing. I mean, you're honest. Texts are not, they're composed.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

And a lot of it is, you know, social environment. When we say communicate, it's I don't, it's not the same if we're sitting in the band hall and we're just okay, well, how do you do this? How do you do that? As opposed to let's all go to lunch and sit around and talk. We all went to lunch before, and we talked about all kinds of stuff, and you could talk about all how do you handle this, how do you handle that? Remember, we did the baseball, we all went to the baseball game one year, and you put a bunch of band people together at a baseball game, they're still gonna talk band. You know, and the road guy was your friend, the band director down the road is my friend. So not only when you communicate, you know, you call up, and I remember when Wes's kids were born, and uh, and you know, you call, hey, how's the wife? How's the family? And you talk human, and then you know, it it eventually comes around the band. But it's it's just being human with each other, going to dinner or a bunch of directors getting together out at the farm. It's social, but you're gonna learn so much more in a social environment.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

And I'm gonna interrupt real quick. If this camera was here during lunch today over at the Away list, we actually said more intelligent things that are more helpful to other directors sitting there at lunch or sitting in my yard at the farm or something like that. Now we're in here, we're trying to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

So try not to.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

We're not doing it as well as we could have, as informative we could have, if we were in some other environment. Then the everything comes out because we're not even we're not trying to, we don't have a camera here, we don't have a microphone here. So the information that we gave each other at lunch or down at the farm or something is invaluable.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yes. That happened with me, that happened with me at TMA this year. I'm sitting at the Marriott, Mike comes along, he sits, we talk three, four hours that night, and he says, Tommy, you really need to do away with those white shoes and do away with those white bands. You got to fix that. And I'm just like, and everybody thinks we've just done lots of opinions. We're just joking and laughing. I get back home, and as you'll see, the bang's banned this year, black shoes and black bands.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Yeah, I always laugh and tell other directors. Um we learn a whole lot more when we have a an adult drink in our hand and a cigarette than we do.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Let that part out.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

You know, but it's it is what it is. He's got the edit button. So we can't. There we go, there we go. We can probably over. We can take things.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

He doesn't have ISD next to his name.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

He's got that nice retired name over there. That's right. But you know, according to that with doing face-to-face communication, the one real cool thing about it is you can tell if people are listening to you when you're talking face to face. If you're texting, you don't know if they've ever seen the text. Right. And then you feel awkward trying to text again. But kind of going back to the ideal of face-to-face for Perkins and Bodhi, um, do you uh have any sort of schedule for TMA TBA that you make meeting times for certain people? Or do you just kind of hang out at a yard house and kind of wait for things to start happening? Or well, you just answered your own question. Yeah. Okay. No, I mean, at conventions, and of course, I mean, I've never seen y'all like fill go through a Rolodex or anything. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

No, Rolodex is in our pocket. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, sadly, at the TBA luncheon like they used to have, and you stood up and then you sat down after they named how many years you've sat down. 1976. Okay, this is probably year number 50 then for me. So you really are old. Um, but you know, of course I was working at a music store at the time, Penders, you know. You're still old. I didn't fall off the bag and start teaching about 10 years later. But you know, the whole idea is we knew where we were going at say TMEA. Uh okay, well, across from the convention center is the Marriott, they've got a lounge in there that everybody hangs at. You see everybody at the convention and you learn everything. Not just because there's there's drinks there and everything, but everybody's there. Somebody passes through, stops, and talks, and you start listening, you start asking questions. Yeah. The other place, at convention, just like Tommy said, you know, children's called at the office. There's a picture somebody put up or keeps putting up on Facebook of Jim Childers and Wendell Gideon sitting at that table. That's where we all went and learned to listen to guys like that. Go listen to Charlie Trailer. Let's go listen to all these guys. They're all over because they're tired of standing up because they're old. That's why you find us sitting down at the Yorka. But once you sit down and you're like that, that's where we all went to learn. Yeah, we could go to a double read workshop. Like, I don't think I've ever been to one. But anyhow, you want a workshop where you're gonna learn how to teach, you go hang out with these guys like this. You know, there's no end service in the world, you know, at school that's gonna teach us how to teach. They might give us some facts. There is no college unless you know I hate to say that because I've taught them how to be a band director class as an adjunct. But most colleges, you're not gonna learn how to teach. You're gonna learn all the facts. You're gonna learn how to with the fingerings, the embassures, yada yada yada, but you're not gonna learn how to communicate to 1A band, 6A band, university wind ensemble, whatever the case may be. So that's where we're learning from these guys.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah. And it is it is hard to kind of get things going the right direction. When I went to s college, it was a little school, Midwestern State University up in Wichita Falls, and uh Robert Jorgens was my band director, but we all had to take senior conducting. But we never conducted, we never touched a baton. He would get he'd say, Okay, Mike, get behind my desk, I'm gonna bust through the door, and my daughter did not make twirler. And said, I'm gonna cuss you up one side and down the other about how you don't know what you're doing. I want you to respond to me. So he would do that and I would respond, and he'd take time, never say that to a band parent. And he'd say, Here's what you should have said. So he actually taught us how to communicate because you're you're exactly right. There's a difference of learning the information and a difference of learning how to give that information to other people, how to deliver information. Because we're coaches.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Band coaches, we're coaches. Yeah, we have to have a group of students out there do something that we know how to do, but we can't go do it with them. They're on their own. Once they're out on the stage or on the field, whatever the case, coach, they're on their own when they're on the basketball courts. We've tried to teach them how to do it and get some ideas into them, but we're doing the same thing as the coaches. I mean, it's the same concept that we have to do. Yeah, it's a tough job. It is a tough job. Communication and learning how to communicate is a huge thing right there.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

And we definitely exist in a situation for what we do for a living that's really awkward and odd to most people in society. Oh, yeah. Uh, how many times uh have you had people say, What do you actually do? Yep. I think the best one of that, my son, who's now graduated college and has a full career and everything, he asked me one time when he was in third grade, he goes, Dad, what do you do for a living? And I go, Well, I I teach the band. And he goes, he's thought for a second, he goes, That's not a real job. So you just go play with the kids. Uh-huh. And I said, Well, you're exactly right. So, but don't tell anybody because they're paying me for this. You know, so it is really interesting because we've got to figure out how to communicate with that. For me, for a convention, it's a little of both. Because I love I I love going by Yard House to see if uh Bodhi's holding court, you know what I mean? And go by the Marriott and see if Perkins is holding court. Uh so that they're holding court in their places, but also there's people that don't be afraid to call someone and say, Hey, are you going to TBA this year? Are you going to TMEA, or if you're in Kansas, KMEA, and say, um, is there a time we could schedule for like 20 minutes? I've got a couple questions to ask you. And say, Yeah, let's do that at 1.30 and we'll meet at the the pender booth or whatever and just kind of talk for a little bit. So don't be afraid to do that because what's the worst they can do is say, no, actually, I'm too busy. I won't be able to do that. You know, I I can't think of a time, and someone might call me on this, but I can't think of a time that someone's asked me for help for something that I haven't gotten back to them. Yeah. You know, I've just said I've just told them so I'm sorry, but I'm just way too busy for you.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

You know, yeah, yeah. I I agree with everything you said, other than uh Yeah, meet at the Tarpley booth, okay? There you go. I need tarpley booth.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

I'm gonna put you on the spot now.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

We need to have a Tarpley booth and convince maybe coming for TV and a movie. There you go. There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

I want to say thank you to Tarpley Music. One because they sponsored this podcast, because West bought me lunch today. They do they do pay me an honorarium for doing this. So thank you, Tarpley Music. I appreciate you greatly for all your work and service that you do for my class. I mean, for the educators of uh our part of Texas, okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

But uh And if you'll just go ahead and put a couple spigots in your booth like this, and you've got last week under here, you can edit this out. But anyhow, you're gonna have a lot of action.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

All right, we're coming up to the close. So I'm gonna give you guys one chance if you want it. So, Wes, what's one thing you want to say?

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah, you know, just remember that we're all connected together by music uh more than anything. And that's from your your salesperson that out on the road, your band directors, your students, your administrators, your community. We're all connected uh and by a musical world. And even those that don't play music is connected to a musical world because they are everybody's listening to the radio.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And that's what what we're here for is to be connected and musically. So that that'd be my takeaway. Awesome. Okay, Mr. Perkins.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

For me, when you go places like TMEA TBA, you go down there and you get information socially, for instance. I used to take my scores with me. I was playing this for concert and site reading, I would take my scores with me to TMEA. I used to be with children children's and he would go through the score right there on the floor at TMEA. Back in the day when we would use um Barry Hurts music. We'd you'd you'd pick your show and then there'd be a director, and it wouldn't be working for Barry, they'd just be director sitting there, or Barry would do it himself, and he'd start going, now you're you need to watch this part here. Now, if you don't have good French orange, don't play this one. And you would leave with tons of information. I think people, when they go to these conventions, they're going to exhibits and they're they're hanging out with their college friends, but it's an opportunity to get tons of information. And I don't read stuff on the internet, I don't watch um um YouTube videos. I'm gonna watch mics, I think. I was gonna feel insulted there for a little bit. But you get so much information that's what you that's what these conventions are for. Or if you come out to the farm, yeah, we're out there visiting, have a good time. But if you leave these events and you don't have any information, then you didn't do it right.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Awesome, Mr. Bowdy? Well, again, the very same thing is there's none of us, I'm not gonna say us old guys, because there's some fabulous directors that are in their 30s and 40s. None of those people don't like to help people. Right. That's the number one thing. All young directors, new directors, directors who just know that they need some help but are too shy, whatever. All these guys love to help. You make their day if you call them. So that's that's kind of my whole point right here. That's what's gonna happen. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Well, I'd like to two things. One is I'd like to thank you guys for giving up of your time coming up here to meet at the uh Ask Mike Studios. Hey, don't laugh. This is our mystery. We're laughing at my studio. When do we get to ask our questions? No, there's no questions now. We're we're coming to a close. You're we're your edge there at this point. Yeah. Um, but you know, we'd all be a lot better off in our jobs if we just communicate more. But I want to end with a statement by Deyce Pace. There you go. There you go. The famous Doyce Pace. So, Doyce, if you're out there, I'm gonna copy off this part and send to you. And he comes to the farm, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

So he does come to the farm.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

But this is the greatest quote I ever heard about our profession. This job is too damn hard if you don't love it.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

So we're just gonna stop with that statement. Thank you, guys.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Absolutely, and thank you.